First Infallible Statement

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BlueMit11

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Does anyone know of today’s Gospel (Matthew 16: 13-20) account of Peter’s confession of Jesus has ever been referred to as the first infallible statement of a Pope? I know that the Church officially interprets this passage as support for infallibility, and I would believe that all other infallible statements, and all subsequently developed doctrine, is based on this one statement, revealed by the “heavenly Father.”
 
That’s a good point. When Peter acknowledged Jesus as the Christ in today’s readings, it was the first infallible statement made by the newly crowned keeper of keys wasn’t it?

Well, actually in chronological order the keys came next. So I guess the real question is this…

Was Peter’s infallible (or true) statement (which was more of a proclamation, a discernment and realization/understanding) the reason Jesus gave him him the honor he did?

If one read it that way or thought of it that way, it gives even more justification to the doctrine of papal infallibility.

I’ve done some research, but found no actualy answer to your question (which is also mine now, thanks), but often find scriptural basis for infallibility quoting St. Matthew 16:18 a lot, which is to be expected.
 
When I saw this question the quote from Matthew immediately came to mind.
 
The way I heard it was that after Peter made his statement Jesus responded: “Hey that was an infallible statement, Father must have chosen you to be Pope. Here are the keys.” [A loose translation 😉 ]
 
Interesting…
At mass today I had to smile when we read that. I suppose that it would be a sign to Jesus from the Father if someone recognized who he is. During our homily, the priest took it from another perspective. He took it from the perspective that we should all be answering that question and when Peter answered Jesus, Jesus must have been thinking, “Finally, it only took them 3 years” But then immediately afterward Jesus told them about the suffering and his own upcoming death. I thought about it and it made perfect sense; Jesus is finally recognized as the Christ, the son of God and now he has to go. The one who named him, Peter, has not only insight from the father but courage and faith. All characteristics of one worthy to lead God’s people. We all need to ask ourselves “Who do you say that I am” and we also need to ask ourselves “Who am I?” We need to define ourselves by our witness to who Christ is to us. I loved this homily!!! It was so true, we all need to answer who Jesus is to us and who we are knowing who Jesus is to us. So Awesome!!!
 
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BlestOne:
Interesting…
At mass today I had to smile when we read that. I suppose that it would be a sign to Jesus from the Father if someone recognized who he is. During our homily, the priest took it from another perspective. He took it from the perspective that we should all be answering that question and when Peter answered Jesus, Jesus must have been thinking, “Finally, it only took them 3 years” But then immediately afterward Jesus told them about the suffering and his own upcoming death. I thought about it and it made perfect sense; Jesus is finally recognized as the Christ, the son of God and now he has to go. The one who named him, Peter, has not only insight from the father but courage and faith. All characteristics of one worthy to lead God’s people. We all need to ask ourselves “Who do you say that I am” and we also need to ask ourselves “Who am I?” We need to define ourselves by our witness to who Christ is to us. I loved this homily!!! It was so true, we all need to answer who Jesus is to us and who we are knowing who Jesus is to us. So Awesome!!!
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Asking the congregation, “Who do you say that Jesus is?” seems to be a very common homily for this Gospel. We even had a whole talk on it at our seminarin retreat this year. I never really get tired of it because, as my Assistant Vocations director said, this is something we need to reflect on every once in awhile througout our lives. Something that I also think all Catholics need to reflect on is who the Church is. That it is the rock, the pathway to Heaven and to all Christ’s graces, that which the gates of Hell shall not prevail against, and something we all need–not just our local parish, not just an institution run by a German with a funny hat, and not something we as humans have created.
 
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BlueMit11:
Asking the congregation, “Who do you say that Jesus is?” seems to be a very common homily for this Gospel. We even had a whole talk on it at our seminarin retreat this year. I never really get tired of it because, as my Assistant Vocations director said, this is something we need to reflect on every once in awhile througout our lives. Something that I also think all Catholics need to reflect on is who the Church is. That it is the rock, the pathway to Heaven and to all Christ’s graces, that which the gates of Hell shall not prevail against, and something we all need–not just our local parish, not just an institution run by a German with a funny hat, and not something we as humans have created.
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I agree but I did think the cool part was when he challenged us to know who we are and how we plan to show our love for the Lord. I was so excited to hear this because I think I am the only mom in the world that stresses this to her kids sometimes. I know there are others like me but sometimes you look around yourself and just have to think, “what in the world did their parents teach them?” or, “Why don’t parents take their responsibility to raise their children in the light of Christ seriously?” To me it is more important to have faithful moral children than academic geniuses. Not that I don’t think my kids are geniuses mind you… But the point is we all need to DEFINE our lives by this measure not just sit on our butts thinking…isn’t that a nice thought.
 
i may be very well mistaken, but the doctrine of papal infallibilty was declared in the mid 19th century, then the assumption af mary was declared infallible. as far as i know these are the only two incidences.

there are such things as de facto infallible teachings. (abortion, birth control) by repetition.
 
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BlueMit11:
Does anyone know of today’s Gospel (Matthew 16: 13-20) account of Peter’s confession of Jesus has ever been referred to as the first infallible statement of a Pope? I know that the Church officially interprets this passage as support for infallibility, and I would believe that all other infallible statements, and all subsequently developed doctrine, is based on this one statement, revealed by the “heavenly Father.”
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Hello BlueMit,

Using this logic then Moses, Abraham or Noah professed the first infallible statement. Moses was with God and wrote most of the Old Testament which was “revealed by the ‘heavenly Father’”. I hope, we Catholics hold the bible as “infallibly” the Word of God. Though I know that the Church holds certian papal proclamations as infallible, I do not think they elevate them to the level of the bible. The New Testament would be quite abit thicker.

I do not know how the Church feels about Old Testament, High Priest or Sanhedrin proclamations. Are they infallible or excathadra if stated from Moses seat? God certianly loves His Old Testament Church as much as His New Testament Church.

**NIV MAT 23:2 **
“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.”
 
Steven,

In no way am I saying that the Bible is not infallible. The Bible is infallible 100%, but what he was originally refering to in the first post of this thread was “infallible statements” made by Popes. And therefore it would have had to start with Peter.

jjwilkman - about the 19th century proclamation, you are right. Thing is, by announcing it then, it would have to cover all Papal proclamations from Peter on. Therefore, the first papal infallible statement would have started with the first Pope, if he did in fact make a proclamation, which he did in calling Jesus the Christ.
 
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St.Curious:
Steven,

In no way am I saying that the Bible is not infallible. The Bible is infallible 100%, but what he was originally refering to in the first post of this thread was “infallible statements” made by Popes. And therefore it would have had to start with Peter.

jjwilkman - about the 19th century proclamation, you are right. Thing is, by announcing it then, it would have to cover all Papal proclamations from Peter on. Therefore, the first papal infallible statement would have started with the first Pope, if he did in fact make a proclamation, which he did in calling Jesus the Christ.
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Hello St. Curious,

I am glad to hear that you believe God’s Old Testament had infallibility in their leadership also. I think sometimes people forget this. So your statement should read that infallibility covers all Popes from Peter on and all Jewish leaders seated in Moses Chair before them. Is this correct? God loves and leads His Israelite Church equal to His Catholic Church.
“about the 19th century proclamation, you are right. Thing is, by announcing it then, it would have to cover all Papal proclamations from Peter on”
 
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