First Tridentine Latin Mass - Observations

[Orleans_Attny]

Last weekend I attended my first TLM at Blessed Sacrament Catholic Church in Honolulu. Bishop Silva was the celebrant.

For the benefit of others who are like me (had only attended mass in the Ordinary Form), I thought I’d share my initial observations:

1. People are friendly and welcoming. This isn’t a private club and they’re happy to have newbies.
2. I expected the church to be filled with a TON of old foks that predated Vatican II. There were a ton of older folks, but no higher a percentage than you’d find at any mass (maybe less). I was surprised by the large number of families and children.
3. People dress nicer to come to Church (I’m a convert from a Protestant background, so “Church Clothes” is something natural for me). I’m not really judgmental about how people dress at church - I’m just happy they’re there - but I can’t help but notice when someone walks by in Jeans and a Ramones T-Shirt.
4. I expected all women to wear a head covering. About 70% did. For the most part the under 35 women, teens, and children didn’t.
5. There were about 120 folks at the mass.
6. Surprised that there was no use of incense and no asperges, nor chant. And the use of bells differed from what I expected after reading the missal.
7. Since the mass was foreign to me, it was for me to keep up with where the Bishop was in the liturgy. The mass was - obviously - said in Latin, but following tradition the Bishop re-read the Gospel reading in English before he said his homily, which was also in English.
8. I felt that the TLM was a nice reminder of where the focus of the mass should be. Unlike mass in the ordinary form the personality of the celebrant - and his skill as a performer - has nothing to do with one’s ability to enjoy the mass.
9. At the same time, I felt that my 3 boys who are all under the age of 10 would have torn that Church to the ground after about 15 minutes. (Not literally). Let’s face it - though you’re not there to be entertained, one can’t avoid the fact that kneeling for an hour while the celebrant prays in a language you don’t understand can be a bit . . . boring. It would take my guys some time to get used to the TLM - especially my oldest who really likes Mass. I also noticed that A LOT of parents were up and town with their small children throughout the mass.
10. Interesting aside: I saw a family that I knew who had elementary aged children (as I do). I’ve been looking for a good solid Catholic school, and I asked where they sent their children. They responded that they home-schooled their kids (that’s not too surprising), but then they added that they don’t know of a single family that attends the TLM at that parish that DIDN’T home-school their children. I found that last part a bit surprising.

Ultimately, I plan on attending as I can, which will probably be once a month. It’s my wife’s year to teach CCD - so we’re not changing parishes in the middle of the year. And there is no way on earth that our parish priest is going to start saying the TLM. So on non-CCD weekends we’ll probably make the drive into town. It will be interesting to see what the rest of my family thinks of the extraordinary form.

Pax,
OA

 

[ProVobis]

Cool but may I make a suggestion?

The Mass may be in Latin and most of it said quietly, but do realize that there are a lot of details (non-verbal prayers) in the EF which should not be ignored. A good missal will explain why all the signs of the cross, bows, gospel read to the north, genuflections, hands held a certain way, etc are there and, following them hopefully should alleviate some of the “boredom.”

Good for you in bringing your sons. When my dad used to take me when I was small, he would tell me pretty much at what was going on. The consecration at age 5 can be a very awesome event.

 

[sicutincensum]

As someone who “only” discovered the TLM when I was 19, and attended it very very often (average 2-3 times/week) during some years, I could add the following suggestion: try to meditate. The TLM, specially the low mass, is the QUIET mass, optimal for meditation and contemplation.

On the other hand, your experience will be quite different if you go to a sung / solemn mass. There’s much more participation through chant, which makes things much more easier for someone who is more familiar with the OF, and more fun for your children. However, do not forget that the low mass can be an excellent opportunity to teach your children to meditate.

 

[iohanne]

There are various “levels” of Mass in terms of how “full” or “complete” they are. The standard Sunday Mass really should be a Missa Solemnis with a priest, deacons, asperges, incense, chanting. The level below that is a Missa Cantata with a priest, server(s), incense and chanting. The level below that is a Missa Lecta with a priest a server and everyone is spoken. This last one usually shows up for weekday daily Mass.

You probably attended a Missa Lecta. =)

It takes quite a bit of work to have a full blown Missa Solemnis. Not only is it highly ornate and ceremonial, but you need a trained choir to be able to handle some of the vocal feats of Gregorian chant - especially if the congregation is going to insist on attempting to sing along, since the choir usually has to be substantially louder than everyone else in order to lead the way.

 

[Orleans_Attny]

Thanks. I should note that I wasn’t actually bored. What I meant by in my original post was that my boys would certainly be bored. I did my best to follow along with the missal and to keep up with the explanations as we progressed through the mass.

It was not a low mass. But I’m not sure if the fact that the Bishop was the celebrant, or that the sacrament of confirmation was bestowed before the mass began, caused what I perceived to be a departure from the missal. It’s quite possible I just wasn’t following along properly.

Overall, it was a good (and interesting) experience.

Pax,
OA

 

[TrueLight]

Thanks. I should note that I wasn’t actually bored. What I meant by in my original post was that my boys would certainly be bored. I did my best to follow along with the missal and to keep up with the explanations as we progressed through the mass.

It was not a low mass. But I’m not sure if the fact that the Bishop was the celebrant, or that the sacrament of confirmation was bestowed before the mass began, caused what I perceived to be a departure from the missal. It’s quite possible I just wasn’t following along properly.

Overall, it was a good (and interesting) experience.

Pax,
OA

Interesting. I don’t know of any sung masses with no chant nor incense.

But then again, it’s not like I’ve been attending mass for years.

Maybe the more experienced can pitch in.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Thanks. I should note that I wasn’t actually bored. What I meant by in my original post was that my boys would certainly be bored. I did my best to follow along with the missal and to keep up with the explanations as we progressed through the mass.

It was not a low mass. But I’m not sure if the fact that the Bishop was the celebrant, or that the sacrament of confirmation was bestowed before the mass began, caused what I perceived to be a departure from the missal. It’s quite possible I just wasn’t following along properly.

Overall, it was a good (and interesting) experience.

Pax,
OA

Was there any music at all in the mass itself, excluding a processional and/or recessional?

 

[Orleans_Attny]

Was there any music at all in the mass itself, excluding a processional and/or recessional?

There was a choir, and there was singing by the choir during the mass.

There were six candles on the alter.

I suppose I’ll do more background reading in preparation before I attend my next one, which probably won’t be until February.

Pax,
OA

 

[Orleans_Attny]

Interesting. I don’t know of any sung masses with no chant nor incense.

But then again, it’s not like I’ve been attending mass for years.

Maybe the more experienced can pitch in.

Somewhere I got the impression that incense was optional at Missa Cantata?

Pax,
OA

 

[TrueLight]

There was a choir, and there was singing by the choir during the mass.

There were six candles on the alter.

I suppose I’ll do more background reading in preparation before I attend my next one, which probably won’t be until February.

Pax,
OA

Oh there was singing? I thought you meant there wasn’t any singing at all.

So there was no Gregorian chant?

Somewhere I got the impression that incense was optional at Missa Cantata?

Pax,
OA

I think it is optional at a Missa Cantata. I just have not seen one without incense.

 

[Skeptic92]

There was a choir, and there was singing by the choir during the mass.

There were six candles on the alter.

I suppose I’ll do more background reading in preparation before I attend my next one, which probably won’t be until February.

Pax,
OA

Six Candles Lit on the Altar? Singing, or do you mean chanting? was it the Latin Propers & Ordinary that was Chanted/Sung?

Somewhere I got the impression that incense was optional at Missa Cantata?

Pax,
OA

Missa Cantata usually includes all the elements of the Solemn High Mass, with just the celebrant, and no deacon or subdeacon, but I do believe incense may be optional at a Missa Cantata.

 

[MarkThompson]

Somewhere I got the impression that incense was optional at Missa Cantata?

Pax,
OA

It was forbidden for a long time, but repeated condemnations by the Vatican were not enough to stop people from doing it because they liked it, and eventually, in the early part of the last century the Vatican knuckled under and agreed to tolerate the practice. Unfortunately, incense at a missa cantata forever bears the stain of being the fruit of disobedience. It’s good to hear that there are places that refuse to eat of such fruit.

 

[TrueLight]

It was forbidden for a long time, but repeated condemnations by the Vatican were not enough to stop people from doing it because they liked it, and eventually, in the early part of the last century the Vatican knuckled under and agreed to tolerate the practice. Unfortunately, incense at a missa cantata forever bears the stain of being the fruit of disobedience. It’s good to hear that there are places that refuse to eat of such fruit.

Interesting.

I can see that happening for some other practices that are happening right now without full approval by the Vatican.

 

[Rich_C]

Thanks. I should note that I wasn’t actually bored. What I meant by in my original post was that my boys would certainly be bored. OA

OA,

Speaking as someone who has only been attending the EF Mass for less than a year, I’ve seen amazing things regarding children there. Many families have books for their kids to help them participate.

Notable example: In one family there were four boys maybe 3-9 y/o: the oldest had a little missal, the next had a children’s missal, the next had a children’s book about the Mass, and the next had a children’s book containing great Catholic art. They really seemed to meet each kid where they were and the oldest with his missal was explaining things to one of younger ones. It was inspiring.

I’d say challenge your boys and let them own the Mass as they’re able.

 

[domandcarols]

OA,

Speaking as someone who has only been attending the EF Mass for less than a year, I’ve seen amazing things regarding children there. Many families have books for their kids to help them participate.

Notable example: In one family there were four boys maybe 3-9 y/o: the oldest had a little missal, the next had a children’s missal, the next had a children’s book about the Mass, and the next had a children’s book containing great Catholic art. They really seemed to meet each kid where they were and the oldest with his missal was explaining things to one of younger ones. It was inspiring.

I’d say challenge your boys and let them own the Mass as they’re able.

That is so sweet, praise be to God. I can’t wait to have kids like that.

 

[jonbhorton]

It was forbidden for a long time, but repeated condemnations by the Vatican were not enough to stop people from doing it because they liked it, and eventually, in the early part of the last century the Vatican knuckled under and agreed to tolerate the practice. Unfortunately, incense at a missa cantata forever bears the stain of being the fruit of disobedience. It’s good to hear that there are places that refuse to eat of such fruit.

Interesting, sorta like CITH?

If you could provide a source on this, I’d love to read it.

Thanks!

 

[MarkThompson]

Interesting, sorta like CITH?

If you could provide a source on this, I’d love to read it.

Thanks!

See, e.g., here; here et seq. (ad 4º); here; here; also here (C of E source proposing that “adoption of the peculiar Roman Catholic service known as Missa Cantata in certain of our churches may have been due to sheer ignorance of the fact that such a limitation of the use of incense has never been known in England”); here (1921, noting ready availability of indults); here.