Fish and Lent and the Church

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billcu1

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I was always confused by eating fish and sea food on Fridays during Lent. I talked to a priest at my Parrish I know and he told me fish were not animals. He said “You can look at them and see they’re not animals”. And I guess in Jesus’ day, anything from the sea wasn’t an animal. I’m not to clear on this can anyone help me understand what he was saying?
 
I don’t think that the idea that “fish are not animals” is either accurate or the basis of the tradition. My understanding is that meat (from mammals) is historically considered more of a high-end or extravagant meal, while fish was considered subsistence food for the lower classes. So refraining from meat is a sacrifice, while eating ‘cheap’ food like fish is not. Today that is no longer true, but the tradition remains.
 
In the Latin Rite it’s specifically meat from warm blooded animals that we abstain from on Fridays (during Lent). Cold blooded animals like fish and reptiles we don’t abstain from. I’ve seen any number of reasons. Some people speak to the difference between what has traditionally been luxury food and common food. Others emphasize that warm blooded animals tend to be bloodier, and it’s a reminder that Christ shed his blood for us on a Friday, and is meant to help keep us mindful and able to detach from worldly things.
 
TMC said:
I don’t think that the idea that “fish are not animals” is either accurate or the basis of the tradition. My understanding is that meat (from mammals) is historically considered more of a high-end or extravagant meal, while fish was considered subsistence food for the lower classes. So refraining from meat is a sacrifice, while eating ‘cheap’ food like fish is not. Today that is no longer true, but the tradition remains.
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I’m sure this is an over-generalization, and I am not a scientist, but fish tend to have very low, almost non-existent attention spans, and are basically automatons. On the other hand, a dog, cat, cow, or pig can feel anxiety, show emotion, communicate displeasure, and is just generally a higher form of life. Compared to this, fish are more like insects.

Seafood is a good source of protein, and is delicious when prepared correctly. Just be glad that the Church, in her binding and loosing authority, permits it to be eaten on Fridays. Having to derive protein from dairy and beans gets wearisome after a while.

(I have to eat a high-protein diet for health reasons, and cannot subsist on carbs, fruits, and vegetables. Others can.)
 
After the 15th century, salted dry cod became a staple protein source for much of western Europe’s lower classes and peasants. Allowing fish to be eaten on Fridays evolved as an exception for the poor. And these fast and abstinence requirements varied from place to place. That is my understanding if how it came about.

Many “theological” reasons may have been devoloped later.
 
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tafan2 said:
Many “theological” reasons may have been devoloped later.
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To say nothing of the “theological” justifications for why certain animals got classified as fish, that really aren’t fish, so they could be eaten on Fridays by Catholics in some area.

The basic idea was to fast on Friday and if you had to eat, then eat what poor people would eat.
 
Right. Not to mention that plenty of people who don’t like fish (raises hand) will eat eggs, cheese, grains, fruits and vegetables on Fridays. In our house it was always, “No meat Friday” not “Fish Friday”.
 
I have never understood people who don’t like fish. I will eat it fried, grilled, broiled, raw, canned, etc.
 
In my family, only my brother and I dislike fish. Don’t know why. I know it’s marvelous, healthy, etc. But I simply cannot eat it without getting ill. I have the same trouble with mushrooms, tomatoes, and cucumbers, and believe me I would LIKE to eat something other than ‘white pizza’ and enjoy pickles. My grandfather would eat fish sparingly but he had the same problem with the other vegetables so I suppose there are some genetics at play as he died when I was fairly young.
 
Well, they are animals, but a lot of times when we say meat, we mean warm blooded animals.
 
I know that fish are very much full of parasites. Parasites that
cause problems in man. Depending on the cooking method. Microbes
in plants don’t bother us so much. There must’ve been some point
in Jesus’ day.
 
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billcu1 said:
I know that fish are very much full of parasites. Parasites that
cause problems in man. Depending on the cooking method. Microbes
in plants don’t bother us so much. There must’ve been some point
in Jesus’ day.
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Never heard that before, but I do know that fish goes bad quickly, and poultry goes bad far more easily than beef or pork. I don’t like to deal with fish or poultry unless I’ve just gotten it, for that reason. I do almost all of the cooking for my family, and I usually use beef or pork for my protein (steak, spaghetti sauce with meat, pork chops, sausage, etc.).
tafan2 said:
After the 15th century, salted dry cod became a staple protein source for much of western Europe’s lower classes and peasants. Allowing fish to be eaten on Fridays evolved as an exception for the poor. And these fast and abstinence requirements varied from place to place. That is my understanding if how it came about.
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But did people even know what “protein” was in those days? I’m not sure people knew about the nutritional value of this food or that, they just knew what was fine, elegant food, and what was basic, everyday food for the masses.

I read something not long ago about Americans emigrating to Mexico, and someone made a snide remark about living on beans, rice, and tortillas. Well, pardon me, but a diet with this as its basis, with some fresh fruits, vegetables such as tomatoes and peppers, and meat when you can get it, doesn’t sound bad to me at all. Cucina poverta can be very nice indeed. I keep a bowl of black beans and rice in the refrigerator almost all the time, to provide a basic starch for meals that is both nutritious and tasty. Got the idea from the Cubans.
stpurl said:
Right. Not to mention that plenty of people who don’t like fish (raises hand) will eat eggs, cheese, grains, fruits and vegetables on Fridays. In our house it was always, “No meat Friday” not “Fish Friday”.
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Nobody has to eat fish on Friday. You can eat many other types of good food, just not meat (unless, of course, you take advantage of the US indult and perform an alternate act of penance or charity, this for Fridays outside of Lent).
 
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TMC said:
. So refraining from meat is a sacrifice, while eating ‘cheap’ food like fish is not. Today that is no longer true, but the tradition remains.
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Considering that seafood is growing more contaminated by the day, it is becoming more true than ever.
 
Know the nutritional value I am sure they did. Know what
“protein” was IDK. They probably didn’t look at things the same as
far as “protein”. Of course they knew all about salt, and it is a
desiccant. This scientific theory of our ancestors being so dumb
they tripped over each other I don’t buy. That’s like the “We are
here because our ancestor’s medicine didn’t work” reasoning. So
much has been lost. Well I am not sure what Fr. meant when he
said, “You can just look at them and tell they’re not animals”.
Was the term “animals” used the same back then. * Corpus
Hippocraticum* we don’t have in its’ entirety supposedly.
Maybe the priesthood knows something. Or so much is lost, and it
is indeed just a tradition.
 
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billcu1 said:
Know the nutritional value I am sure they did. Know what
“protein” was IDK. They probably didn’t look at things the same as
far as “protein”. Of course they knew all about salt, and it is a
desiccant. This scientific theory of our ancestors being so dumb
they tripped over each other I don’t buy.
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I didn’t say anything like that. I would like to think that someone noticed, for instance, that people with varied diets were healthier than those who lived on just one staple or a very narrow choice of foods — but I wouldn’t bet on that. Many cultures in the history of mankind haven’t had the luxury of having wide dietary choices. Generally speaking, the mass of people lived for countless generations within a very small area, and really didn’t know that anything else existed outside of that area — they might have some awareness, but they would not have related it to their own lives. More recently, my own grandmother never got more than 100 miles away from her home (and that was only because my uncle bought a general store in a village three counties over), and she had never been to the mid-sized city about 40 miles away that served as the trade and media center for the area. Their lifestyle was very similar to the Amish, though motor vehicles were used by some. Certainly they knew other places existed, but it had nothing to do with their lives.
 
No they did not know what protein was. To them, it was a cheap firm of meat.
 
Wesrock said:
Cold blooded animals like fish and reptiles we don’t abstain from.
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That is weird because frogs are cold blooded but taste something like chicken wings. So it is a sin to eat a chicken wing, but ok to eat a frog’s leg?
ThomasMT said:
Considering that seafood is growing more contaminated by the day
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Is it only seafood that is contaminated?
 
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