Fish out of water

[Casilda]

I would like a discussion with reverts or those considering it, who were brought up during the 60’s but left the church, either because their families did (as in my case) or made the decision on their own.

I do not want condescending remarks from those who accepted the changes or accept the mass as it exists today.

I attempted reversion a couple of times, as an adolescent and an adult and was unsuccessful. I am now with one of the sui iuris, Eastern catholic churches. What led me there was gentle teaching and discovery of the early church fathers by an Eastern Orthodox priest. When it came down to converting Orthodox or reverting Catholic, it came down to my Catholic baptism and early catechesis by Franciscan nuns that kept me Catholic.

I have been lied to by many Catholics locally, either intentionally or because of their ignorance. These are people who either volunteer to their positions of authority or placed there on purpose. I call them gatekeepers. I have had two priests apologize for these gatekeepers. I actually gave up trying to revert last year. Long story but I ended up where I am today.

A priest on the radio said you should attend where you are fed, on a segment about church shopping (Catholic). As I see it, if you are not fed, you starve and then die. I am talking spiritually. I do not want to become one of the zombies that pack the local parishes. They are dead and suck the life out of those not fully dead yet. I have come to realize I am starving. I was constantly fed at the Orthodox parish. Where I am today (EC) seems like it is all a smokescreen, I see it, but it is an illusion. There is no depth to it.

I keep asking, why did God let my family lead me away and place those gate keepers to keep me away from the Catholic church? Why did God assist in the discovery of the Eastern churches ( both O and C)? Where does He want me now (or want me to do now)?

The answer, you need to talk to your priest or spiritual director, isn’t really a helpful quip.

What are your experiences?

 

[Della]

I came at this whole thing from another direction–as one brought up Episcopalian, “converted” to the Assemblies of God (not my choice at the time, but my mother’s), “reverted” to the ECUSA, and then was received into the Catholic Church after a long spiritual, emotional, theological struggle. That’s just a quick background.

When I started RCIA it was at a very “liberal” Crosier parish that was pushing God as our mother, women priests, and inclusive language. Fortunately for me the director of RCIA was the parochial pastor, a sound priest who gave us sound teaching. It was the senior pastor who was all for the liberal agenda.

I knew nothing about the Catholic Mass except that it very closely resembled the Episcopal Sunday service. For me that was good, at the time, because it eased me into Catholic culture. But I quickly learned that all the things the parish was supporting was unsupportable. However, having been through much manipulation in the AoG (not saying it’s like that now–I have no idea), I was wary and savvy enough to realize that individuals are not to be fully trusted–the Church is–and not just any church, but the one Christ founded.

Down through the centuries the Church has been rocked, pulled this way and that, corrupted in leadership (from time to time), and tettering on the edge of disaster. The funny thing is that the Church always rights itself and goes on, guided by the Holy Spirit into all truth. The thing for us lay people is to hang on to the truth, pray for our leaders, and be obedient as we are bound to do, but not in sin, of course.

So, don’t let “gatekeepers” or anyone else discourage you. Go to Mass, pray, keep God’s commandments, both Old and New, and love God and others. What more do we need to do? God calls us to be faithful, not to make the Church into any image of any kind. That’s the mistake many have made and still are making. But it doesn’t work that way. Those who feel they are supposed to be in charge, when no one anointed them, can be rightfully ignored. We’re to be part of a parish and live our Catholic faith. That’s all that’s required of us.

 

[fred_conty]

Here is something from Mother Teresa to think of when discouraged about things.

People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.

What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway.

Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.

In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.

 

[CalCatholic]

So, don’t let “gatekeepers” or anyone else discourage you. Go to Mass, pray, keep God’s commandments, both Old and New, and love God and others. What more do we need to do? God calls us to be faithful, not to make the Church into any image of any kind. That’s the mistake many have made and still are making. But it doesn’t work that way. Those who feel they are supposed to be in charge, when no one anointed them, can be rightfully ignored. We’re to be part of a parish and live our Catholic faith. That’s all that’s required of us.

I agree with Della, don’t let a few people at a local parish who are puffed up with their importance steer you away from any parish, let alone the Catholic Church. The Church is more than a local parish (and any petty politics that are going on there)! It is truly the ‘universal’ Church here on earth and in heaven. There are 1.2 billion people in the Catholic Church scattered all over this planet. The Church has been around for two thousand years. yes there have there been problems; wars, society collapsing around the Church (collapse of the western Roman empire), unholy leaders, etc. But even as nations come and go, the Church guided by the Holy Spirit moves on. So look at the big picture, what are a couple of ‘gate keepers’ in the big scheme of things?

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I would like a discussion with reverts or those considering it, who were brought up during the 60’s but left the church, either because their families did (as in my case) or made the decision on their own.

I do not want condescending remarks from those who accepted the changes or accept the mass as it exists today.

I attempted reversion a couple of times, as an adolescent and an adult and was unsuccessful. I am now with one of the sui iuris, Eastern catholic churches. What led me there was gentle teaching and discovery of the early church fathers by an Eastern Orthodox priest. When it came down to converting Orthodox or reverting Catholic, it came down to my Catholic baptism and early catechesis by Franciscan nuns that kept me Catholic.

I have been lied to by many Catholics locally, either intentionally or because of their ignorance. These are people who either volunteer to their positions of authority or placed there on purpose. I call them gatekeepers. I have had two priests apologize for these gatekeepers. I actually gave up trying to revert last year. Long story but I ended up where I am today.

A priest on the radio said you should attend where you are fed, on a segment about church shopping (Catholic). As I see it, if you are not fed, you starve and then die. I am talking spiritually. I do not want to become one of the zombies that pack the local parishes. They are dead and suck the life out of those not fully dead yet. I have come to realize I am starving. I was constantly fed at the Orthodox parish. Where I am today (EC) seems like it is all a smokescreen, I see it, but it is an illusion. There is no depth to it.

I keep asking, why did God let my family lead me away and place those gate keepers to keep me away from the Catholic church? Why did God assist in the discovery of the Eastern churches ( both O and C)? Where does He want me now (or want me to do now)?

The answer, you need to talk to your priest or spiritual director, isn’t really a helpful quip.

What are your experiences?

You are most unfortunate. We don’t know your specific problems with the " gate keepers " so we can’t address those. As to those who are just " occupying space, " so to speak, that is their problem, not yours. If you can’t find a local Marionite Church, you should be attending a Catholic Chruch of any Rite available. Attenting an Orthodox Church when a Catholic Church is available does not allow you to fulfill your spirtual obligations.

Have you considered that you may be judging too harshly, perhaps you are expecting a perfection in others that you do not have yourself?

Linus2nd

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I was brought up in the 50’s and 60’s, in a Catholic family, with Catholic school for 7 years.

By the time I was 18 and entering the Marines, I had left the Church, but still prayed, “just in case.”

However, after marriage at age 23, I was pretty much agnostic.

I saw the wealthy lifestyles of the priest in my parish and the members of the PTA who were more focused on Las Veges nights and drinking than anything else.

In other words, I was blaming them for my lack of faith.

Anyway, one morning in 1973,while feeling miserable about myself and everyone in the world, I happen to turn on the TV one Sunday morning, and became irritated that there was only religious programs on. However, I stopped at one channel when I heard the beautiful singing by a couple. So, I sat down and listened. It was Richard and Patti Roberts.

After the music, Oral Roberts came on and started talking exactly how I was feeling.

He said, you know you want to change, but don’t know how. So, tonight, take a Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to come and guide you. Open the Bible and read whatever you come to. You don’t even have to understand what you’re reading, just leave it up to the Holy Spirit.

So, that night, I shocked my wife and asked if we had a Bible. She got out her old St Joseph’s Bibles, with the “thees and thous.” I did as Oral Roberts said, I asked the Holy Spirit to guide me. I don’t even remember what I read, I think it was a Psalm.

Anyway, the next morning I woke up with a different feeling that I had never felt. I felt relaxed and there was a certain peace about me.

That night, I came home and again took up the Bible. This time, I went right to the Gospel of Matthew. I couldn’t put it down.

Now, I began to wonder about Jesus. Was he real ? Was he what I was told by the Catholic Church ?

Next morning, I’m hungry for more reading, but had to wait til I got home. This time, my wife had been reading the Bible and had gotten out a copy of “Good News For Modern Man,” which she had. I read that and couldn’t stop.

To make a long story short, I was told about Fr Diorio the priest in our town who did healing’s and my father who was wheelchair bound, was going with my family. I went and
the service was beautiful, but full of fanatics at the same time. My father was not healed, but he didn’t expect to be.

That night, I tossed and turned in bed. I wanted that peace I had, but it wasn’t coming. I didn’t want to go back to my old way of life either as my sins were flashing before me. Finally, I prayed to Jesus from the depth of my being. If you are real, come into my life, I give it to you.

Suddenly, I was filled with a bright light. It was a being a spiritual being, who I knew was Jesus Christ. I felt my sins wash away and I felt the love and joy his compassion gives. I wanted to run out into the streets and tell everyone about what I was feeling.

Well, I woke up the next morning glowing from head to toe. I went to work and tried to tell others what happened, but no one would listen. So, I called my wife. Ironically, she had gone through the same experience that morning.

I got home and we were flying high. We returned to the Church and never looked back.

That was 1976, and it’s been a journey of ups and downs, consolations and dryness.

But I have never loss my faith in Jesus Christ. He is the reason, I’m Catholic, nothing else.

Jim

 

[pianistclare]

How is it that these people feel they have permission to engage you in these non-helpful conversations?

I’d attend Mass, be with Christ, and worship where and how I pleased.

There are many people in our parish that I know nothing about. It’s fine, I don’t need to get into their souls.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I forgot to mention, the reason why I shared my faith journey, is to help people understand that their lack of faith can not be blamed on others, as I had done before Christ came into my life.

Faith comes from Jesus Christ and it his Him we need to look to for faith and not worry about the sins of others.

Jim

 

[Isca]

I sympathise with you. I have attended many different churches over the years, before I became a Catholic. There is always a small core of wonderful people who work hard for others, but often there’s also a few people who think their way is the only way - sometimes they’ve attended the same church for many years, even for several decades.

Since I became a Catholic last year, I have attended Mass at quite a few different churches, including for several months in another country where the service was in Italian. I’m always wary of getting too comfortable, as I know things change and fantastic priests can be moved away at any time. So I keep trying something new.

I’m presently attending Mass away from my ‘home’ parish (the one where I did RCIA and was admitted to the Church), at another church in the same town. It’s completely different in style, some things I like better, some not so much - but it’s the Mass, just the same. I shall probably keep going there for a while, and then I may change again.

I think it keeps me fresh and focused on the real meaning of why I go. It also opens my eyes to the universality of the Catholic Church. I don’t get involved in any internal politics at church and because we live between 2 countries, I can’t make regular commitments to go on rotas or take on other jobs, other than helping with the ‘soup kitchen’ at my home parish.

I’d recommend that the OP keeps looking and moving around. Don’t be discouraged!

 

[Casilda]

How is it that these people feel they have permission to engage you in these non-helpful conversations?

I’d attend Mass, be with Christ, and worship where and how I pleased.

There are many people in our parish that I know nothing about. It’s fine, I don’t need to get into their souls.

This was meant for you:

I do not want condescending remarks from those who accepted the changes or accept the mass as it exists today.

Why do you respond only to discourage and belittle?