FOCCUS couples?

[hsmom2four]

Hi~

My dh & I are a FOCCUS couple, meaning we help prepare couples for the sacrament of Matrimony. Dh loves doing this, but it has really lost it’s appeal for me. I am staying with it because of my love for my dh (he does so much for me), at my pastor’s request (great guy as well), and because of the slim chance that we might actually be doing some good.

Anyways, I am wondering what your thoughts are on the subject. Personally, I hardly feel qualified for the task. I feel it’s really a pastoral duty for someone much more trained in the area of counseling.

I’m also wondering who started this idea anyways? Is it one of those crazy things coming from the liberal ideas of the '70’s, or is it really legit?

 

[TableServant]

I don’t know who started the practice, but I can only endorse it - at least as the parishes that I have been in implement marriage preparation. Many of the comments that I receive from couples who have gone through the FOCCUS survey and the related preparation have commented that they would not have thought of some of the things that came up on their own, and they appreciated the guidance of the person helping them to prepare.

Some couples who have been married for much longer, but did not have the preparation, expressed that they wish that they could have had something like it. They would have know a bit more about how each other dealt with things, and would have looked “beyond the wedding and into the marriage.”

I can’t speak to your qualifications, but from what you have said here, I would be encouraged, and would love to have you in the same ministry in our parish. You sound very supportive of “your dh”, and he of you. I would expect that the couples you minister to find you a great example.

If the ministry has lost its appeal for you though, if you are feeling ‘burnt-out’, it may be time for you to take a break from this ministry. Perhaps you can suggest a ‘sunsetting’ period of your ministry with couples preparing for marriage, during which you two, together, can be looking toward something new, that both of you enjoy and find fulfilling. I don’t think that anyone wants you to stay in something that is causing you ill feelings. Especially if they might cause contention between you and your spouse.

 

[Makerteacher]

My husband and I have done the FOCCUS pre-marriage work for nearly 12 years now, with some breaks. For the most part it has been a positive experience, in that I feel like we might have actually done some good. We did have one couple who decided not to marry after the third session, when it became clear to them (it had already been very clear to many others) that they were NOT ready for that level of commitment. I consider that, honestly, our greatest triumph in this work: a divorce averted.

I think we’ve done about 20 couples through the years, and with two exceptions they all admitted that they were all already sleeping together. This is my biggest problem with the program: how do you prepare people for something they are already dabbling in? How do you chide them with enough authority to make them rethink their decision to have sex? Once you’re doing it, stopping is almost impossible. We present the Church’s teachings and encourage as best we can.

Granted some of those couples who fornicated before marriage remain married today, though I cannot vouch for how happily they are married. Some we have lost touch with. One couple has divorced, which I take as a personal failure on our part, and a constant prayer intention for me. One couple, the husband died in the line of duty (soldier). So sad. Two of them remain in our parish and we watch them in the pews as their families grow. Thats really nice, we feel sort of like spiritual godparents.

The two couples who were NOT having sex yet are also doing great, and were the ones who took preparation the most serious.
One of them had been to an Engaged Encounter weekend led by an extremely liberal priest, and they were VERY offended by that. Since they did not feel it had done anything to prepare them, they came to us afterwards, and I think they feared at first that we too would be liberal. When we turned out to be orthodox and serious about our faith too, the four of us ended up becoming friends and still see each other socially.

I think you may be feeling burned out, or perhaps just not currently called to this particular ministry. Would your husband consider a sabbatical of, say, two years off? Maybe time to work on your own relationship for a while?

 

[YinYangMom]

Hubby and I have been the FOCCUS couple for our church for the past 2 years and have seen about 15 couples so far. One couple broke off the engagement, and another took a year to work out some issues as they were the only couple so far we felt needed family counseling before going through with the marriage.

The other couples have been pleasantly surprised to see how valuable the inventory and our followup sessions are to their preparation for marriage. There has always been one or two areas of discussion which really did need to be explored further between the two of them so it was never a waste of time.

They’ve also appreciated speaking about the issues with a married couple as opposed to the priest. It does give them the opportunity to ask real questions about how to cross certain roadblocks, etc.

Also, one of the reasons the diocese prefers having a married couple do this ministry is the extension of fellowship. We meet with the couple three times not only to allow them time to reflect and work out some issues in between sessions, but so that a relationship can be built between us and them - one that helps the couple feel at home in the parish.

I, too, feel uncomfortable about going through the inventory with couples who are already living together or sleeping together, but I defer to the parish and diocese on that. By the time the couple gets to us, I’m assuming the church has already approved them for preparation. Not my place to do the lecturing, near as I can tell. I only hope the priest already did that or will do that before the wedding date. We do encourage sexually active couples to abstain for the rest of their engagement period though.

The other situation which raises a brow for hubby and I (but for which we believe faith will steer them through) is when one of the partners is not Catholic and is still active in their church. It’s one thing when one partner is not Catholic but doesn’t really practice their own faith because that’s a prime opportunity for RCIA down the line…but for the couple of two separate religions we worry about what lies ahead for them and the family when the kids come along. They seem very comfortable and sure about how they will approach the situation but we know it’s a whole different world once you actually hold that baby in your arms and realize you are responsible for that soul. Over all, however, this issue as well, is one better left for the priest to address than us.

We only hope that they are comfortable enough in the Catholic church/parish they marry in that they will choose to remain part of that parish the rest of their married years. Our providing a pleasant experience for them through our sessions and greeting them at Mass when they are around is how we hope to influence that a bit.

 

[kyrie_eleison]

My fiance and I are took the FOCCUS test two weeks ago. May I ask how the test will be evaluated? My brother said that the answers that we both disagreed on or uncertain will be questioned and brought up. I enjoyed taking the test, especially where the question asked "My future spouse always wants to win. However, I was worried because although I wanted to put “agree” I marked “disagree” only because I felt that our little arguments or competeing with eachother is not enough for us to break a 6 year long relationship. Yes we both always want to win on some issues but we don’t punch eachother out to victory, we usually figure it out and compromise. Any advice?

Much Love!

 

[Makerteacher]

kyrie_eleison:

My fiance and I are took the FOCCUS test two weeks ago. May I ask how the test will be evaluated? My brother said that the answers that we both disagreed on or uncertain will be questioned and brought up.

First off, congrats on your engagement and upcoming marriage, and kudos to you both for going through the preparation. The entire purpose of the FUCCUS is to get you as a couple talking seriously about issues that WILL come up once you are married. Some of the issues you have probably already gotten covered. Others will be things you never thought of.

The FOCCUS instrument (we’re not allowed to call it a test) scores you on this basis: the Church has a preferred answer for each of the questions. If either of you (or both of you) deviate from that preferred answer, then we need to discuss it. It may be that the Church would like for you to agree to a question, and either one of you agrees and the other is uncertain, or perhaps you both disagree; the question will then be marked for discussion during the sessions. The questions are divided up into categories like parenting, family of origin, money, conflict resolution, etc. Ceertain questions are considered “key indicators” meaning that it is important that you both understand and accept the Church’s teaching on that issue before you marry.

In our experiences, most couples have done lots of talking about SOME of these areas, but we have yet to have a couple who has talked about ALL of them, nor one who understood the position of the Magisterium on ALL of them.

Hope you enjoy your marriage preparation; be ready for lots of serious and wonderful conversations!

 

[hsmom2four]

Thanks to all who have posted on this issue. I have to put this into two posts as my original was too long. Here’s part 1;

I don’t think it’s a case of burn-out; we are a small parish and only meet with about 3 couples per year. Maybe I can explain my feelings on this a little better:

Someone mentioned part of the purpose of this was fellowship. I really don’t see this happening in our ministry, although it was “sold” to us as one of the wonderful aspects of being involved in this. We very rarely see the couples we have facilitated FOCCUS for after the last meeting with them, and we certainly don’t have any inkling of a ‘bond’ with any of them. I don’t know if this could be an indicator that we should not be in this ministry. My feeling is that when a couple meets with us and shares some of the more intimate details of their relationship with us, the LAST thing they want to do is see us in a social setting (such as after Mass). Sort of the feeling you get sometimes about going to Confession, that “Gee- this priest knows me and all my faults; what he must think of me!”, except we are not bound to the seal of privacy that a priest is. (We do keep what they say confidential, but we are allowed to share with the priest what they said if there is a major area of concern.) But maybe, it’s just us?

Perhaps I have the whole idea of what we’re supposed to be doing as a FOCCUS couple. Hospitality is not my strong suit, and if this is the main job of a FOCCUS couple, then I AM in the wrong ministry. When we meet with a couple, I feel like I am in the role of a counselor, and I do not feel completely qualified in this aspect.

[go to next post for Part 2.]

 

[hsmom2four]

[Part 2]

Diplomacy is also not one of my strong suits (just read some of my other posts - ). When a couple comes in and has fundamental disagreement with Church teaching (and we’ve had some who go way beyond the living-together thing), I cannot sit there quietly and smile and hope for the best. I WILL speak my mind, and I’m not likely to sugar-coat it. I have asked couples point blank why they want to get married in the Church if they have such fundamental disagreements with it’s doctrine. The usual reply is, “we’re okay with that-we don’t HAVE to agree with the Church to receive the sacraments.” How does one deal with that?? My stomach was tied up in knots for a week after the last couple we had like this, esp. when they told the priest that there was a language barrier and we misunderstood what they said. (Not true! We understood each other perfectly well.)
If the Church can ask someone to refrain from receiving Communion, shouldn’t that also go to the other sacraments as well? (Except Confession, of course!)

Of course, none of this is our decision to make; however, I feel like an accomplice in their duplicity by participating in their preparation for marriage. I’m talking about couples who know what the Church teaches and disregard it anyways, not those who are ignorant of Church teaching, or when one of the pair is not Catholic. Someone here said that they felt they would not be working with a couple if the pastor had not already approved their readiness. In most cases we’ve had, they haven’t even met with the pastor or priest, just a secretary or other administrator who just gets the basic info on the couple and then passes them along to us. And as far as the couple is concerned, we are just the next hoop to jump through on their way to the altar.

And that brings up my next concern - are we just a hoop to jump through? That is why I asked about how this whole FOCCUS thing started. Whose idea was it that some poorly-trained (at least, I think my dh & I are poorly trained) married couples would be the best way to prepare those seeking marriage in the Church? I don’t argue that the FOCCUS instrument can be a valuable tool in marriage preparation. However, I can’t help but wonder if a professional counselor would be a better person to administer this; really a priest would be the ideal person to discuss this with. He has the graces of his sacrament of Holy Orders to counsel the faithful, not me!

[OOPS, still need a Part 3]

 

[hsmom2four]

[Part 3 - sorry so long!]

I guess this whole thing is really bothering me because next month, our parish wants to hold a couple of training sessions at the parish for new FOCCUS couples, and they’ve asked us to help host these. My dh gave them a cheery, “Of course we will!” (my reaction). So, I 'm going to have to go and make nice and tell everyone what a wonderful ministry this is when deep down, I don’t really believe it; although I’m tempted to over-sell it just so I can work myself out of job :whacky: But then there’s still dh to deal with. I’m hoping that if I can find some documentation that this is not a good program to be involved in, he might reconsider our participation in it.

Sigh. I really do NOT want to discourage any of you who are in this ministry and find it rewarding. I keep trying to tell myself that for every difficult case we see, there are probably 2 that work out great, although lately, they seem to keep giving us all the difficult ones. I keep trying to remind myself of where I was in my spiritual walk when dh & I were preparing to be married - about the same place as many of these couples. I keep trying to tell myself that we are just the sowers of seeds, not the Gardener. But I’m sitting here like this :crying:absolutely dreading our next FOCCUS meeting. And on the other hand, I feel like Jonah, heading as far away from Ninevah as possible!

Thanks for listening and for all your (name removed by moderator)ut

 

[otm]

A) The program sounds fantastic, and I don’t see anything at all that runs counter to the Church

B) Whether or not you “bond” with a couple should not necessarily be a determinative issue. But if it is repeatedly occuring that couples seem to avoid you, you might want to look at how you come across to them; it may be that your approach is on the cold and/or authoritarian side. I can come across the same way at times; so I’m not taking a poke

C) Maybe you need a break.

E) Don’t sugar coat the truth. Be honest; and if a couple comes back with a “cafateria Catholic” response, be honest and follow up that that stance is not reflective of the Church. But don’t, at the same time, get into an “I’m right and you are wrong” attitude. Charity does not preclude truth.

F) Have you shared this as openly with your husband as with the thread? Is he listening? Did you make a Marriage Encounter weekend? Drag out the notebook and sit down and use the process!

G) Don’t assume that a ministry is necessarily light 'n easy; some of it is drudge work. You are doing very necessary work; don’t look for results but leave it in God’s hands.

H) There is a greater and greater body of work beginning to assemble in research, both in psychology and sociology, that supports no intercourse before marriage (as well as some significant findings medically involving hormonal responses); and not all of it is Catholic, or even Christian in orientation. Facts aren’t Catholic or non Catholic; they’re just facts. Look around and start collecting some of it for when the couple just doesn’t want to hear “the Church line”.

 

[hsmom2four]

otm:

B) Whether or not you “bond” with a couple should not necessarily be a determinative issue. But if it is repeatedly occuring that couples seem to avoid you, you might want to look at how you come across to them; it may be that your approach is on the cold and/or authoritarian side.

Could be; like I said, I don’t sugar-coat anything. Maybe I am acid-coating it ? However, I don’t feel I can sit there any longer and be nice about it, and I’m not exactly sure how to go about it diplomatically, either. And I don’t think anyone is avoiding us, our paths just never seem to cross; but maybe that’s a good thing? I suppose this was an unrealistic expectation of mine…

otm:

C) Maybe you need a break.

Would like to, but dh thinks we’re doing some good. I have discussed this with him, but he’s not budging on this right now. He’s one of those who will do anything our pastor asks of him, unless he can find a Church teaching that will contradict it (hence my trying to find the origins of this program). Gotta love him for his loyalty…

I will try discussing this with him again. Maybe if they are able to recruit more couples next month, he will feel better about dropping out of this.

otm:

G) Don’t assume that a ministry is necessarily light 'n easy; some of it is drudge work. You are doing very necessary work; don’t look for results but leave it in God’s hands.

You’re right about the drudge work, and I do try to remind myself of this. I am just wondering if it is necessary that we do it? Still wondering if this would be better handled by a priest.

otm:

H) There is a greater and greater body of work beginning to assemble in research, both in psychology and sociology, …Look around and start collecting some of it for when the couple just doesn’t want to hear “the Church line”.

(Edited for brevity)

The truth is that I do not really want to do all this research. I don’t feel called to this ministry at all, only going along with it because dh & our pastor has asked us to continue with it. There are other things I’d rather be doing. In fact, when we moved into our current parish and they asked us to be a FOCCUS couple, I told dh that if he wanted to do this again, HE would have to do the work - make the calls, set up the appointments, review the survey results, lead the sessions, etc. He agreed; however, he has only done the phone-calling part. I still feel the burden of this ministry is on me. DH sometimes doesn’t even look at the survey results until we are driving to the appointment.

I do want to thank you for your comments. I would like to ask everyone for their prayers - maybe ol’ red-legs is getting to me on this one. Everyone I talk to says stay with it, you’re doing a good thing…

 

[Fortiterinre]

You sound like you are doing a wonderful job! I have heard only positive things about these programs, usually that people who entered simply wanting to qualify for a “church wedding” ended up returning to active practice of the faith.

 

[kyrie_eleison]

MakerTeacher,

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Thanks for the support! We will be seeing the results soon. We would like, if God permits, to be FOCCUS couples or sponsors too one day.

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Much love!