Focus on sexuality issues

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Homosexuality has been found in over 1,500 different species of animal.

I have to be honest. I did not even read the rest of your statement. Because this is false. Not only that, but as Children of God and humans, we are not called to be as good as the animals. That is not what natural laws even means. Many species eat their young and commit rape.

Do you have a source for your claim?

 

[Kelt]

I have to be honest. I did not even read the rest of your statement. Because this is false. Not only that, but as Children of God and humans, we are not called to be as good as the animals. That is not what natural laws even means. Many species eat their young and commit rape.

Do you have a source for your claim?

Perhaps you haven’t lived on a farm?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I think this thread has been diverted. This is about the Church preaching about sexual no-nos. I think it’s pretty clear that very few if any homilies deal with sexual issues. Most of them are about trying to be a good person to your fellow man, and also to have a loving relationship with God. Most of them deal with stewardship, charity, and reliance on God. I have never heard a sermon on homosexuality or even birth control.

Now if we are talking about hot button issues on CAF, that’s a different story.

 

[Thinking10]

Here is the problem with focusing on individual sex acts rather than the relationships in which sex takes place. You lose sight of the bigger picture of the place of sexual unions in society.

In our culture, we have a social order that has developed over many years. Marriage is the social institution in which one man and one woman become exclusive sexual partners for purposes of procreating and raising children. Lets focus on promoting marriages, and stop arguing over the specifics of which sex act is right and which is wrong.

Homosexuality is not equivalent to heterosexuality, and can never replace heterosexuality. Homosexuality offers no benefits to society. By drawing people away from vital heterosexual relationships, and diminishing the distinction between what is and isn’t a marriage, causes harm to society. It should not be promoted. It takes away from the definition of our social order.

Let’s stop arguing over the minutiae of whether individual sex acts within marriage are right or wrong, and instead focus on promoting healthy marriages. We are way too focused on whether couple A or couple B is having sex right all the time. Instead let’s just step back, promote the types of relationships that are needed for a healthy society, do what we can to support such relationships, and let everything else fall into place.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Here is the problem with focusing on individual sex acts rather than the relationships in which sex takes place. You lose sight of the bigger picture of the place of sexual unions in society.

In our culture, we have a social order that has developed over many years. Marriage is the social institution in which one man and one woman become exlusive sexual partners for purposes of procreating and raising children. Lets focus on promoting marriages, and stop arguing over the specifics of which sex act is right and which is wrong.

Homosexuality is not equivalent to heterosexuality, and can never replace heterosexuality. Homosexuality offers no benefits to society. By drawing people away from vital heterosexual relationships, and diminishing the distinction between what is and isn’t a marriage, causes harm to society. It should not be promoted. It takes away from the definition of our social order.

Let’s stop arguing over the minutiae of whether individual sex acts within marriage are right or wrong, and instead focus on promoting healthy marriages. We are way too focused on whether couple A or couple B is having sex right all the time. Instead let’s just step back, promote the types of relationships that are needed for a healthy society, do what we can to support such relationships, and let everything else fall into place.

The trouble is that a lot of the perverse sexual acts that men and women are performing together (married or not) come directly from the homosexual culture or prostitutes. There is so much acceptance of pornographic sex these days that many people consider it normal. But it really isn’t.

 

[Thinking10]

The trouble is that a lot of the perverse sexual acts that men and women are performing together (married or not) come directly from the homosexual culture or prostitutes. There is so much acceptance of pornographic sex these days that many people consider it normal. But it really isn’t.

If you aren’t in their room how can you know what a couple is doing? The most you can do is support marriages.

Who gains or loses what when a couple uses a condom? If it allows them a needed sexual release and chance for sex that they would otherwise get, has it done harm or help to their marriage? If that couple is having a fair number of children willingly, who would ever know that they sometimes use condoms instead of abstinence?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

If you aren’t in their room how can you know what a couple is doing? The most you can do is support marriages.

Who gains or loses what when a couple uses a condom? If it allows them a needed sexual release and chance for sex that they would otherwise get, has it done harm or help to their marriage? If that couple is having a fair number of children willingly, who would ever know that they sometimes use condoms instead of abstinence?

I don’t care, live and let live. But God probably cares.

 

[Amandil]

I was talking to a friend (agnostic) and the topic of religion came up. He is of the opinion that religions in general focus too much on sexual issues and tend to ignore other, more pertinent issues that can affect their members. I do agree to a small degree that some church (I can only speak for christianity) focus too much on sexual issues
What do you think?
Should there even be more focus on these issues?
What issues do you think the church is not paying enough attention to?

Sexuality properly speaking is integral to the human person, so I’m not sure if there is too much of an emphasis placed on human sexuality compared to the powers who constantly seek to corrupt it. Because of the deception of sin there obviously exists a proverbial playground for the devils in respect to sexuality.

Attempts by religion to address human sexuality is to reorient human sexuality towards it’s proper good.

Your agnostic friend apparently sees sexuality as not integral to the human person, or sees the various disordered acts which mimic sex proper as “no big deal”.

As far as issues that the Church is not paying enough attention to? I can’t remember the last time I heard a homily on Eschatology or hell.

How about gluttony? I’ve never heard anything regarding the gluttony of delicacy.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Sexuality properly speaking is integral to the human person, so I’m not sure if there is too much of an emphasis placed on human sexuality compared to the powers who constantly seek to corrupt it. Because of the deception of sin there obviously exists a proverbial playground for the devils in respect to sexuality.

Attempts by religion to address human sexuality is to reorient human sexuality towards it’s proper good.

Your agnostic friend apparently sees sexuality as not integral to the human person, or sees the various disordered acts which mimic sex proper as “no big deal”.

As far as issues that the Church is not paying enough attention to? I can’t remember the last time I heard a homily on Eschatology or hell.

How about gluttony? I’ve never heard anything regarding the gluttony of delicacy.

Yeah - how about a good old “fire and brimstone” sermon? Wake people up!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Perhaps you haven’t lived on a farm?

Grew up breaking and training horses and breeding them.

I think you are confused by the term natural law as used in this case. Natural law does not mean whatever occurs in nature, because again, rape, and the eating of young also occur. Are you advocating for farm animal behavior in humans? Because, I don’t know if you have ever seen horses breed but it is quite the violent act.

 

[Amandil]

Yeah - how about a good old “fire and brimstone” sermon? Wake people up!

People should be woken up. Spiritual laxity and mediocrity is a serious problem.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

People should be woken up. Spiritual laxity and mediocrity is a serious problem.

I totally agree. People are so complacent and accepting of everything as long as it doesn’t involve them, (and I am not excluding myself). We do need to wake up. This life is very short and the next one is for eternity.

 

[davidv]

Perhaps you haven’t lived on a farm?

I have.

What happens on the farm does not support your claim that humans are just like hogs or cattle, unless you choose not to live up to your potential. Yours is an invalid objection.

 

[VTA365]

I have to be honest. I did not even read the rest of your statement. Because this is false. Not only that, but as Children of God and humans, we are not called to be as good as the animals. That is not what natural laws even means. Many species eat their young and commit rape.

Do you have a source for your claim?

First of all, our species DOES in fact have some cannibalistic people in general and rapists as well.

And as for providing sources for my claims homosexuality in the animal kingdom and that humans are animals, here you go:

And before you read these articles please have an open-mind instead of that “if it disagrees with the bible it’s false” attitude.

pactiss.org/2011/11/17/1500-animal-species-practice-homosexuality/ (Homosexuality in the animal kingdom)

io9.com/yes-humans-are-animals-so-just-get-over-yourselves-1588990060
(Humans are animals)

I’m coming from a rational, open-minded standpoint on things that have been proven by science. You’re using the bible as if it were absolute fact to dictate what humans are and aren’t. You’re still an animal no matter how many times you pray, go to church, or do anything else. I’m an an animal too and so is everyone on this forum.

The evidence points to that we evolved from a common ancestor that we share with all other types of great apes (gorillas, chimps, orangutans, bonobos, gibbons and humans included).

And just in case you try to pull the “If we evolved from monkeys why are there still monkeys?” card then the answer to that question would be we didn’t directly evolve from monkeys, we share a common ancestor with them, the chimpanzee (a great ape) being our closest genetic relative to date.

To sum it up easier, it’s like this.

jefflewis.net/graphics/blog/great-apes_500w.jpg

And if you were to ask “How do we know…?” here is a table of contents with different pages that will answer this question using what science says. Also feel free to look around the entire website and not just this table of contents under the subject “How Do We Know…” to educate yourself the topic of human evolution.

humanorigins.si.edu/resources/How-Do-We-Know

So, here are my reference points to back up my claims. I’d also like to ask you for what evidence you have to back up your claim that humans are not animals but I think I know what your answer will be HOWEVER if you do in fact show concrete evidence otherwise I would be glad to hear it and listen with an open-mind.

 

[VTA365]

Yeah - how about a good old “fire and brimstone” sermon? Wake people up!

Yeah, because nothing says “God loves you!” like a hostage situation! /sarcasm

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Yeah, because nothing says “God loves you!” like a hostage situation! /sarcasm

What hostage situation?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

First of all, our species DOES in fact have some cannibalistic people in general and rapists as well.

And as for providing sources for my claims homosexuality in the animal kingdom and that humans are animals, here you go:

And before you read these articles please have an open-mind instead of that “if it disagrees with the bible it’s false” attitude.

pactiss.org/2011/11/17/1500-animal-species-practice-homosexuality/ (Homosexuality in the animal kingdom)

io9.com/yes-humans-are-animals-so-just-get-over-yourselves-1588990060
(Humans are animals)

I’m coming from a rational, open-minded standpoint on things that have been proven by science. You’re using the bible as if it were absolute fact to dictate what humans are and aren’t. You’re still an animal no matter how many times you pray, go to church, or do anything else. I’m an an animal too and so is everyone on this forum.

The evidence points to that we evolved from a common ancestor that we share with all other types of great apes (gorillas, chimps, orangutans, bonobos, gibbons and humans included).

And just in case you try to pull the “If we evolved from monkeys why are there still monkeys?” card then the answer to that question would be we didn’t directly evolve from monkeys, we share a common ancestor with them, the chimpanzee (a great ape) being our closest genetic relative to date.

To sum it up easier, it’s like this.

jefflewis.net/graphics/blog/great-apes_500w.jpg

And if you were to ask “How do we know…?” here is a table of contents with different pages that will answer this question using what science says. Also feel free to look around the entire website and not just this table of contents under the subject “How Do We Know…” to educate yourself the topic of human evolution.

humanorigins.si.edu/resources/How-Do-We-Know

So, here are my reference points to back up my claims. I’d also like to ask you for what evidence you have to back up your claim that humans are not animals but I think I know what your answer will be HOWEVER if you do in fact show concrete evidence otherwise I would be glad to hear it and listen with an open-mind.

You are all over the map. Slow down!

1 I never said that we were not animals. 2 Attempting to debate evolution or common ancestor is silly and not even close to the subject at hand. I think you are overreacting in your zeal.

Lets just stick with the original premise.

“natural law and homosexuality”

Natural law defined in this case is obviously religious in nature. We refer to it as the law which God writes on our hearts and the heart of every person. It does not indeed mean as you seem to think that “If it occurs in nature then it is natural law for humans.”
This obvious when talking about deviant behavior. Like child sex, rape, or murder. We do not go around saying these things are part of natural law because they happen in nature.

Your “source” has some obvious logical errors.

1. Rarely is sodomy actually achieved in animals, not only that but it is aggressive and male in practice.
2. When presented with willing female partners, almost all animals will choose the female.
3. It is similar to prison rape in humans. It is this that we can make an adequate analogy.

I think you need to define what you think natural law is.

 

[sw85]

I was talking to a friend (agnostic) and the topic of religion came up. He is of the opinion that religions in general focus too much on sexual issues and tend to ignore other, more pertinent issues that can affect their members. I do agree to a small degree that some church (I can only speak for christianity) focus too much on sexual issues
What do you think?
Should there even be more focus on these issues?
What issues do you think the church is not paying enough attention to?

Sex is pretty basic to human flourishing. It is far more basic than, say, politics, because to have politics you must have a society, and to have a society you must have people, and to have people you must have… sex! Moreover sex is, obviously, hardwired into us biologically, so it is “built” into us not just as social creatures but even at a purely animalistic level. We can’t escape it.

So I cannot imagine how it is possible to focus too much on an issue that is so elementary, especially when the common understandings of those issues are under such sustained and concerted attack by the world. (Why, by the way, is it that Catholics “focus too much on sex” when it is the world that is polluting the airwaves and streets with pornography and insisting on the redefinition of marriage, etc.?)

 

[Kelt]

Grew up breaking and training horses and breeding them.

I think you are confused by the term natural law as used in this case. Natural law does not mean whatever occurs in nature, because again, rape, and the eating of young also occur. Are you advocating for farm animal behavior in humans? Because, I don’t know if you have ever seen horses breed but it is quite the violent act.

I was merely answering your apparent assertion that VTA365 was wrong about homosexuality in other animals.
Recognising some homosexual behaviour in animals doesn’t ‘advocate for farm animal behaviour in humans’ Haha!
Homosexuality is evidently more ‘natural’ than you’d like to think it is. (I recognise that you have your own separate meaning for ‘natural law’.)

 

[Kelt]

Sex is pretty basic to human flourishing. It is far more basic than, say, politics, because to have politics you must have a society, and to have a society you must have people, and to have people you must have… sex! Moreover sex is, obviously, hardwired into us biologically, so it is “built” into us not just as social creatures but even at a purely animalistic level. We can’t escape it.

So I cannot imagine how it is possible to focus too much on an issue that is so elementary, especially when the common understandings of those issues are under such sustained and concerted attack by the world. (Why, by the way, is it that Catholics “focus too much on sex” when it is the world that is polluting the airwaves and streets with pornography and insisting on the redefinition of marriage, etc.?)

I think it is the surprising amount of detail…the minutiae…of the church’s interest in our sex lives that people don’t understand. What is and what isn’t (and it’s mostly isn’t ) allowed.
People say ‘what’s it got to do with anybody else what 2 consenting adults do in private?’
Society is oblivious of whether 2 men/women/a man and a woman sit and discuss philosophy all evening in their home or have sex. What society does notice is whether those people play a useful part in their community or not.