For All the Protestants That Care to Answer . . .

[believers]

I think he is trying to accuse us of saying that Muslims are saved without Jesus, since the Catechism tells us that Muslims know about the God of Abraham, and are therefore on the path of salvation (the third step, to be exact, since the lesson about Abraham is Lesson 3 in the RCIA Catechumenate).

Then, please explain. I’m very interested.

 

[mrs_abbott]

This is from your own Catechism. According to Jhn 14:6, this statement is completely false. I hope you guys don’t believe in this false doctrine. No church of Jesus would ever state this.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

Jhn 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I, personally, don’t know anything about the Islam religion to be agreeing or disagreeing with anything. Sorry! I’ll bow out of this discussion, since I’m not much help.

 

[believers]

I, personally, don’t know anything about the Islam religion to be agreeing or disagreeing with anything. Sorry! I’ll bow out of this discussion, since I’m not much help.

Here’s my point. The Catholic religion teaches this and you must blindly believe it just because your Catholic. Your “Mother church” has stated this as true. The statement above is obviously false.

 

[jmcrae]

Here’s my point. The Catholic religion teaches this and you must blindly believe it just because your Catholic. Your “Mother church” has stated this as true. The statement above is obviously false.

What the Catholic Church teaches is that God’s plan of salvation (Jesus Christ on the Cross) includes every human being on earth.

• Nobody* is excluded from the possibility of being converted to the Catholic faith (which is the true faith in Jesus Christ), by which we are saved from our sins and become citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven (aka Saints).

In the section that you’re quoting, our Catechism explains to us how each group of people (broadly speaking) is currently related to the Truth of Christ, so that when we are evangelizing them, we know what the starting place is.

In the case of the Muslims, they know how to have faith (lesson 1), that there is only one God (lesson 2), and they know about Abraham (lesson 3).

Instead of just picking out a couple of paragraphs here and there, you should really read the whole section. It’s quite self-explanatory.

 

[believers]

What the Catholic Church teaches is that God’s plan of salvation (Jesus Christ on the Cross) includes every human being on earth.

• Nobody* is excluded from the possibility of being converted to the Catholic faith (which is the true faith in Jesus Christ), by which we are saved from our sins and become citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven (aka Saints).

In the section that you’re quoting, our Catechism explains to us how each group of people (broadly speaking) is currently related to the Truth of Christ, so that when we are evangelizing them, we know what the starting place is.

In the case of the Muslims, they know how to have faith (lesson 1), that there is only one God (lesson 2), and they know about Abraham (lesson 3).

Instead of just picking out a couple of paragraphs here and there, you should really read the whole section. It’s quite self-explanatory.

But that’s not what the verse says.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and TOGETHER WITH US THEY ADORE THE ONE, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

The Muslim God (Allah) and God the Father are not the same.
Muslims do not acknowledge the true Creator as that statement claims.
Muslims profess the faith of Muhammad… not Adam, not Abraham, not Moses, not David, and not Jesus
Muslims do not adore God.

Declaration of the Muslim faith, By reciting this, one enters Islamic faith

“I bear witness that there is no god, but God; I bear witness that Muhammad is the prophet of God.”

 

[jmcrae]

“Believer” -

You are misunderstanding it. Go back and read the whole section. Go back to the part where it says, “There is no salvation outside of the Church,” - if you start reading from there, it will make way more sense to you then.

PS: I also think that you misunderstand Islam, as well. I think any Muslim reading your post would feel moved to correct a great many errors.

 

[believers]

“Believer” -

You are misunderstanding it. Go back and read the whole section. Go back to the part where it says, “There is no salvation outside of the Church,” - if you start reading from there, it will make way more sense to you then.

PS: I also think that you misunderstand Islam, as well. I think any Muslim reading your post would feel moved to correct a great many errors.

how exactly am i misunderstanding this line?

“together with us they adore the one, merciful God.”

You can also say…

Catholics and Muslims adore the one, merciful God.

No matter how you look at it, that is a false statement

 

[believers]

“Believer” -

You are misunderstanding it. Go back and read the whole section. Go back to the part where it says, “There is no salvation outside of the Church,” - if you start reading from there, it will make way more sense to you then.

PS: I also think that you misunderstand Islam, as well. I think any Muslim reading your post would feel moved to correct a great many errors.

NO, they wouldn’t. I took it from them.

 

[jmcrae]

how exactly am i misunderstanding this line?

“together with us they adore the one, merciful God.”

You can also say…

Catholics and Muslims adore the one, merciful God.

No matter how you look at it, that is a false statement

How is it false?

Muslims adore God, and believe Him to be merciful. (One of the titles of Allah from the Koran is Allah the All-merciful.) They describe God as the Creator of the Universe, and they believe that Abraham worshipped this God. “Allah” is an Arabic word that simply means “the god.”

Catholics adore God and believe Him to be merciful. We believe that this God is the Creator, and that Abraham worshipped Him.

 

[believers]

How is it false?

Muslims adore God, and believe Him to be merciful. (One of the titles of Allah from the Koran is Allah the All-merciful.) They describe God as the Creator of the Universe, and they believe that Abraham worshipped this God. “Allah” is an Arabic word that simply means “the god.”

Catholics adore God and believe Him to be merciful. We believe that this God is the Creator, and that Abraham worshipped Him.

I’ll just leave your explanation so all can see that Catholics and Muslims adore the same God by your own admission.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Here’s my point. The Catholic religion teaches this and you must blindly believe it just because your Catholic. Your “Mother church” has stated this as true. The statement above is obviously false.

Then I guess it’s true.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ll just leave your explanation so all can see that Catholics and Muslims adore the same God by your own admission.

Yes, I guess so.

Is the Protestant God not the Creator? Is the Protestant God not one God? (How many gods is He, then?) Is the Protestant God not the God that Abraham worshipped?

If not then I have some really bad news for you …

 

[believers]

Yes, I guess so.

Is the Protestant God not the Creator? Is the Protestant God not one God? (How many gods is He, then?) Is the Protestant God not the God that Abraham worshipped?

If not then I have some really bad news for you …

We know who the Muslims worship and it certainly is not our God. Y’know… the triune God, God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit.

 

[jmcrae]

We know who the Muslims worship and it certainly is not our God. Y’know… the triune God, God the Father, God the Son, & God the Holy Spirit.

The Jews don’t know about the Trinity, either.

Would you say that they also worship a “different god?” Or how can the Jews worship the same God, without knowing about Jesus or about the Trinity, yet the Muslims (who describe God in exactly the same terms that the Jews do) cannot?

 

[believers]

The Jews don’t know about the Trinity, either.

Would you say that they also worship a “different god?” Or how can the Jews worship the same God, without knowing about Jesus or about the Trinity, yet the Muslims (who describe God in exactly the same terms that the Jews do) cannot?

The Jews are in a category all by themselves. They are God’s chosen people and they have a covenant with God thru Abraham which is still in effect. God’s is not done with the nation of Israel. As soon as the fulfillment of the gentiles is complete, God will once again turn His attention to the nation of Israel.

Quite honestly, I can’t believe we’re arguing this point. The Muslim God and the Christian God are not the same. Just like scripture says… you either server God or mammon, you cannot server both.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[jmcrae]

The Jews are in a category all by themselves. They are God’s chosen people and they have a covenant with God thru Abraham which is still in effect. God’s is not done with the nation of Israel. As soon as the fulfillment of the gentiles is complete, God will once again turn His attention to the nation of Israel.

I thought the New Covenant was for Israel? But they rejected it, which is why it was given to the Gentiles.

The Old Covenant is no longer in effect, which is why God took away their temple, and has not allowed them to rebuild it. The Temple Age (the Old Testament) is finished - God no longer requires animal sacrifices, and they are no longer even permitted, since Jesus has died for our sins.

Quite honestly, I can’t believe we’re arguing this point. The Muslim God and the Christian God are not the same. Just like scripture says… you either server God or mammon, you cannot server both.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I am not aware of any Muslims who worship Mammon. If anything, totally the opposite, since they forbid images of every kind; they aren’t even allowed to have photographs of their loved ones.