For Confirmed Agnostics and Atheists

[James_S_Saint]

Some time ago, I posted the following so as to introduce a gathering of seekers to the concept of The God of the Bible.

Many additional aspects and thoughts can be addressed. This was just an introduction;

The Hebrew God

The God of gods

From all that I can ascertain from a great deal of very deep study for many years, the “God of gods” of the Hebrew referred to a concept of one all-encompassing Principle from which all else is derived.

The universe and all within obeys this one most high Principle above which there can be no other. All that happens everywhere throughout reality is subject to this one Principle. Nothing escapes it.

The Hebrew language could not differentiate between a personal reference and an inanimate reference and thus the reader must realize when the writer was referring to an object or energy (spirit) versus a personage. To say, “He said” required the exact same symbols as to say, “it showed”. But more often no pronoun was used at all.

Personification of the “First Cause” Principle has led to a great deal of anthropomorphizing such as to cause belief that the Biblical God was indeed a human type of entity but with vastly greater power.

The Torah, being written some 3000 years after the purported advent of Ahdam, in English states that Man was made in the “image” of God. But in translating Hebrew, it makes more sense to say that “Man was made in the pattern of God.” This makes more sense on many levels and also fits their language perfectly. It moreover states that Man was made after the one Principle which rules all things.

In addition to the erroneous notion that Man was made into a visual image similar to God, the Torah refers to “Man”, not “human”. The word “human” refers to the “hue of Man” or the lower, subtle element of the higher concept of “Man” as in “mankind”. The “Man” being referred to in the Bible, known as Adam or Ahdam, was never stated to be a human (even in English), but was the first manifestation of a gathering of humans into one society with a single ruler. The word “Ahdam” means “the gathering of the spirit”. That one ruler was supposed to be the one Principle, but they disobeyed that Principle and thus their society collapsed. Science supports the fact that humans existed long before the purported making of Ahdam.

During the 6000 year legacy of the story of that one highest Principle from which all else derives, a great many assumptions have been made and interjected into the story. Finding exactly what that one Principle is, would be the source for great power in that it would allow the foretelling of exactly what would or would not actually work. It would ensure victory in every battle. It would allow predictability for every event. The idea was well worth the worship, assuming that it was findable and usable. Seeking God has been the issue and concern for survival.

The one all-encompassing Principle concept implies that if one would “always do this” or “always do that”, then everything would “always work out”, after all, anything done right, must turn out right, else it wasn’t done right. This leads to the notion of having morals that are never to be broken else “things will NOT work out right”.

To seek the Hebrew God and thus “be in His presence”, one need merely seek to answer the one question;

"What one Principle in reality overrides all others?", fore this is and always will be God.

The current anti-God movement is the proposition that in reality, there isn’t one. Logic tells the truth of it.

There are many ways to try to find the truth concerning any religion, but realize that people have been doing that for thousands of years.

EVERY religion was actually started by people attempting to logically derive real truth, some with more success than others. But what came, in every case is what still occurs today. People begin to corrupt the original intention with misunderstandings and political incentives. They use language to persuade compliance.

The Abramic religions most specifically allow for and promote the use of language to persuade. Metaphor is the “sinew” (the connectivity) between those with understanding and those tempted to believe in magic. The stories of the OT point out not only when such a practice came about, but even why and the fruits of using it.

It is important to realize what it takes to discover the truth underlying a great cloud of confusion and superstition that hides the real religion and its real origin and truth. There has actually never been any argument between religion and Science, only between their respective preachers who use language to gain following and even make Science into a misunderstood religion.

Politics drives and governs the world of Man, not Truth because the Truth is that “perception of Truth” is all man can use to make his decisions. Thus “causing misperception” is used to hide truth and also used to gain larger following whether for the cause of truth or not.

Governments do this same thing, especially today.

 

[James_S_Saint]

So the question becomes, “Even if you do not know what that Principle is, do you believe that there is one? Do you believe that there isn’t?”

If you believe there is, then you believe in God. You have just been calling it by a different name.

That Principle is only “God the Father”. The “Holy Trinity” involves even more to the issue;

1. The impetus for the very existence (Father)
2. The consideration of the entirety (Whole Spirit)
3. The method of sustaining eternal harmony (Son)

 

[James_S_Saint]

No comment???

 

[NowAgnostic]

No comment???

Why does this First Principle have to have the philosophical attributes of God? It’s just like my discussion on the Cosmological Argument threads, you can prove first this, or first that, but how is that God? You’re consistent though and follow that where it leads; that this universe is the only possible one. But then it is just a matter of logical necessity whether any individual adheres to this First Principle.

 

[James_S_Saint]

Why does this First Principle have to have the philosophical attributes of God?

It doesn’t “have to”, it merely does. This includes ALL of the Scriptural writings concerning the actions of God. It also relates directly to the meanings of the words “El”, “Eloha”, and “Elohim” (God).

But then it is just a matter of logical necessity whether any individual adheres to this First Principle.

You lost me on that one, sorry. What are you saying?

 

[Matthias123]

Human reason can establish the existence of a purely actual entity, but because of the feebleness of human reason, one line of reasoning cannot paint us the picture of what this entity actually is. For that we need additional proofs to establish attributes, and then we need theology, to really know this entity.

 

[James_S_Saint]

Human reason can establish the existence of a purely actual entity, but because of the feebleness of human reason, one line of reasoning cannot paint us the picture of what this entity actually is. For that we need additional proofs to establish attributes,

I followed you and agree up to this point, but…

…and then we need theology, to really know this entity.

…this loses me…?