For Muslims - what would it take

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Salaam Friend hawk;
We were never intended to be Caliphs of this world.
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I humbly disagree, according to the Bible which you believe to be the word of God:

GEN 1:26 “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth”

Even before Adam was created and put in the Garden of Eden, and according to the Bible, God had a plan for humanity to have **“dominion **over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth”.
We were intended to live with Allah in Jannah.
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I humbly disagree also, according to the Bible; the Garden of Eden was on earth, while Jannah or Paradise is not.
This can be easily seen in the Bible when it is said that one river, Gihon, out of the four (GEN 2:10-14) that sprang out of the Garden of Eden (where Adam was): “Compassed the whole land of **Ethiopia” **GEN 2:13. Friend hawk Ethiopia is not in paradise. The verse GEN 1:26 I already quoted also shows that according to the Bible, God did not intent mankind to live in Jannah.
Adam chose sin, and sundered the contact with Allah.
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You are saying this only to justify the belief that Jesus redeemed humanity into God. No, Adam sinned, asked for forgiveness and was immediately forgiven. Likewise we are all asked to do the same thing if we sin, we have an open chanel with Allah (SWT), we don’t need anyone in between us.

I apologize to the OP, I am a bit off topic here; but I needed to answer my Friend hawk.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
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r.gonzales:
:rotfl: i’m sorry, but that’s possibily the funniest thing i’ve ever read from you.

i’m willing to say that you, sir, don’t understand the concept of tawheed in the very least.
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Br. let us discuss this then, shall we?
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam Friend hawk;

I humbly disagree, according to the Bible which you believe to be the word of God:

GEN 1:26 “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth”

Even before Adam was created and put in the Garden of Eden, and according to the Bible, God had a plan for humanity to have **“dominion **over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth”.

I humbly disagree also, according to the Bible; the Garden of Eden was on earth, while Jannah or Paradise is not.
This can be easily seen in the Bible when it is said that one river, Gihon, out of the four (GEN 2:10-14) that sprang out of the Garden of Eden (where Adam was): “Compassed the whole land of **Ethiopia” **GEN 2:13. Friend hawk Ethiopia is not in paradise. The verse GEN 1:26 I already quoted also shows that according to the Bible, God did not intent mankind to live in Jannah.
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Br. you are wrong, The garden is not to be understood as this world, it was different, a place of peace, utopia, a place like paradise, a physical place, not a spiritual place.

After we die, we go to Jennah, and there we await the resurrection, when our bodies will be ressurrected and once more we will live in the “new jerusalem”.

It is apparent when you consider

23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.
 
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Joseph_Alison:
You are saying this only to justify the belief that Jesus redeemed humanity into God. No, Adam sinned, asked for forgiveness and was immediately forgiven. Likewise we are all asked to do the same thing if we sin, we have an open chanel with Allah (SWT), we don’t need anyone in between us.

I apologize to the OP, I am a bit off topic here; but I needed to answer my Friend hawk.

Salaam.
Joseph.
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I humbly disagree with this,

God gives us the law,

First
“I am The Lord your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.”

The no gods God is referring to is our desire to seek to love ther things than God.

Everytime we are selfish, we choose ourselves before God.

Now think about this, how many times a day do you put yourself before God?

Islamically, if you do more wrong than right, the scales are tipped and you shall go to hell.

But the thing is that God gives us a way out, ie through sacrafice.

This is not penance, but sacrafice, this reaffirms the covenant with God that we made through abraham and isaac, that when we sacrafice the lamb, we are actually showing our submission to God alone and none else.

But ofcourse the ultimate sacrafice is Jesus Christ.
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Which is why everytime we are at mass, we are reaffirming that our worship is to God alone
**

This is the sound logic and theology of sacrafice.

And the logical continuity of revelation through the Bible.
 
Salaam Friend hawk;
Br. you are wrong, The garden is not to be understood as this world
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I will be wrong only if you can demonstrate that Ethiopia, Assyria, Euphrates, and Asia minor are not of this world.

GEN 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
GEN 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
GEN 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
GEN 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
GEN 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

Havilah: Gen_2:11. A part of Eden through which flowed the river Pison (Araxes). It was probably the , Colchis, in the northeast corner of Asia Minor, near the Caspian Sea. Source here

Friend hawk;
I am not expecting you to agree with me on everything, but at least when something is evident do not evade the issue. I am not of those who try to make an egg “stand-up”, so I will not push you beyond this. I understand that you made a decision (changing your religion) you will defend by any means and I don’t have a problem with that.

The Bible states clearly that man was intended to live and take dominion over the earth (GEN 1:26-29), and this before even Adam was created and put in the garden which was situated in the earth as I have shown above.

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
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Joseph_Alison:
Salaam Friend hawk;

I will be wrong only if you can demonstrate that Ethiopia, Assyria, Euphrates, and Asia minor are not of this world.

GEN 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
GEN 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
GEN 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
GEN 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
GEN 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

Havilah: Gen_2:11. A part of Eden through which flowed the river Pison (Araxes). It was probably the , Colchis, in the northeast corner of Asia Minor, near the Caspian Sea. Source here
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Salaam Yusuf,

You have misunderstood me, I dont mean that the places arent those that you are talking about physically. I mean that conditions existed that made it a garden, peaceful pure and utopian.

We honestly can say that this garden was different in nature from the world.

Lastly God removes the garden, and places cheruim at the entrance to prtoect it, so none shall be there ever again.

Now in islam, Allah says “get you down from here”

Do you beleive that the garden was in the “world”?

No, it wasnt, it was never understood to be part of the world, as we know it today.
 
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denrae:
Hey Deacon,

i really dont understand this. if God is IN us, doesn’t that give us divine powers? or doesnt that make us God-like?
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Yes it does. Upon entering heaven we relise our full spiritual destiny that arises by being adopted sons and daughters of God and take on a spirtual reality that becomes God-like, however we do not become God. At Mass we enter into Heaven as God makes Himself present in the Eucharist and we commune with Him by eating His Body and drinking His Precious Blood. There is no more intimate relationship with God possible then the one offered at Mass.

This is what Jesus promised and His Church teaches.

All, and let me repeat again, all of the spiritual and virtue truth present in Islam is contained in the Catholic Church. However where Islam becomes mortally disordered is exactly in those areas that it disagrees with the Catholic church. The Church is the Body of God.

To have God tell us that He will live within us on earth so we may dwell within Him in Heaven and then to reject that teaching or prevent those who believe this teaching from worship is a sin worthy of hell fire. May God have mercy on the souls of those committ such a sin. From Idonesia to Morocco Christains are brutalised for their beliefs and prevented from worship. There is no Divine Mercy in Isalm just a broken reflection of the true faith found in the Catholic Church.

I have told you the Truth and the Truth is not something it is Somebody, Jesus the Christ. Reject His Divinity and all that you say about you Allah is empty like a gong. You have nothing spiritually to offer a Christian except your own demise.

Christians maintain, in all chairty, that a Muslim in ignorance may still enter heaven. Because his heart may quest for that which his mind did not know. But you have chosen to come here and try to scatter the sheep, perphaps based on a misplaced ultruistic motive. However ignorance does not belong to you anymore. With every post defending Islam as opposed to accepting Chritianity you harden your heart to Christ. Those who die with a hard heart to Christ do not go to heaven says God.

That may sound harsh but there is always hope. I believe that just like Saul, who persecuted and murdered the Christains, all muslims who come to this site, on a certain level God permits you to persecute us, so in the depths of sin and brokeness He will heal you and give us the chance to pick our cross and follow Him more perfectly. He calls Islam constantly to Himself, for Jesus loves you.

Trust that you are at this Catholic site not by chance but because Jesus wants you to become Catholic. Pray on it tonight. You have the choice now. I pray for your conversion.

God Bless You
 
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