For Protestants: Do you believe in OSAS?

[Syele]

I was raised on this doctrine. I believed it as 100% truth until last April, when I began studying Catholicism. All Baptists I know and have ever met teach this doctrine. My entire families faith is partially based on it.

While every Baptist I have met also says that once you are saved you will go to Heaven “no matter what” I also know most of them would waver if you presented a case of someone who had a “salvation experience” but never lived like a Christian would. They would say that person was never saved to start with, right?

That is the distinction between Calvinism and Antinominism. Which one did you believe?

 

[homewardbound]

While every Baptist I have met also says that once you are saved you will go to Heaven “no matter what” I also know most of them would waver if you presented a case of someone who had a “salvation experience” but never lived like a Christian would. They would say that person was never saved to start with, right?

That is the distinction between Calvinism and Antinominism. Which one did you believe?

Yeah, everyone I met would say the same. That they were never really saved. Thats what my family told me happened when the pastor I had grown up with, and my one sister had been married by, left his pastoral vocation, wife and 9 children, and became homosexual. Poor guy, my family says, now he’s 100% destined for hell. I know better now. I know better then to limit God to one moment and one prayer.

I guess that was Calvinism

 

[Syele]

Yeah, everyone I met would say the same. That they were never really saved. Thats what my family told me happened when the pastor I had grown up with, and my one sister had been married by, left his pastoral vocation, wife and 9 children, and became homosexual. Poor guy, my family says, now he’s 100% destined for hell. I know better now. I know better then to limit God to one moment and one prayer.

I guess that was Calvinism

That is a sad story.

Definately Calvinism. My biggest problem with Calvinism is how it removes the free-will God gives us. We don’t instantly become robots when we are saved, our free-will is still intact.

 

[brkn1]

I find scriptural support for the idea that once a person comes to Jesus Christ in true faith, then that person permanently becomes one of the “elect” of God.
God’s foreknowledge of how every person would use their free-will to either choose or reject the Gift of Salvation makes it possible for our free-will choice to be used according to God’s sovereign will. Election somehow combines both forms of will, although I don’t think any mortal could fully understand or explain how it works.

Go to (John 6:37) “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
Once a sinner truly comes and believes in Jesus as his Saviour, it must mean that The Father gave that person to Jesus. The Father would never give to Jesus a person that could later be lost. To say that the person given could later be lost is to say that the Father gives defective gifts to His Son Jesus.
There may be many problems that continue with the “once-saved” person, but that person can never be finally lost.
Look at (John 6:39) "And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it (the physical body also) up again at the last day.

Look at (Ephesians 4:30) “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the the day of redemption.”
Whatever God “seals” is as good as done, even if is has not been finalized yet.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”, Jesus was talking about that spiritual birth, which is sealed with the Holy Spirit, Who then permanently indwells the saved person.
Just as we cannot become physically “unborn”, I have trouble seeing how we could become spiritually “unborn” after God adopts us as one of His chosen ones in Christ.

See (John 10:27-30) “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them,and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
I and my Father are one.”

 

[JoeyWarren]

I find scriptural support for the idea that once a person comes to Jesus Christ in true faith, then that person permanently becomes one of the “elect” of God.
God’s foreknowledge of how every person would use their free-will to either choose or reject the Gift of Salvation makes it possible for our free-will choice to be used according to God’s sovereign will. Election somehow combines both forms of will, although I don’t think any mortal could fully understand or explain how it works.

Go to (John 6:37) “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”
Once a sinner truly comes and believes in Jesus as his Saviour, it must mean that The Father gave that person to Jesus. The Father would never give to Jesus a person that could later be lost. To say that the person given could later be lost is to say that the Father gives defective gifts to His Son Jesus.
There may be many problems that continue with the “once-saved” person, but that person can never be finally lost.
Look at (John 6:39) "And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it (the physical body also) up again at the last day.

Look at (Ephesians 4:30) “And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the the day of redemption.”
Whatever God “seals” is as good as done, even if is has not been finalized yet.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”, Jesus was talking about that spiritual birth, which is sealed with the Holy Spirit, Who then permanently indwells the saved person.
Just as we cannot become physically “unborn”, I have trouble seeing how we could become spiritually “unborn” after God adopts us as one of His chosen ones in Christ.

See (John 10:27-30) “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them,and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
I and my Father are one.”

Selective quoting…

How about these?

22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

in expounding on Jesus’ teaching in John 15, Paul teaches that the Jews (the natural branches) were broken off by lack of faith **(v.20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: ), **

but says that the Romans stand fast through faith (v. 21 : For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. ). So the Romans are justified.

However, Paul then says that the Romans can also be cut off if they don’t persevere in faith and kindness (v. 22-23: See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. ). Hence, those justified before God can fall away from the faith and lose their salvation (be “cut off”).

Paul also says that those who are cut off can be grafted back in if they do not persist in their unbelief, for God has the power to graft them in again **(v.23 : And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.). **
These verses are devastating to the “once saved, always saved” position.

 

[brkn1]

Selective quoting…

How about these?

22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

in expounding on Jesus’ teaching in John 15, Paul teaches that the Jews (the natural branches) were broken off by lack of faith **(v.20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: ), **

but says that the Romans stand fast through faith (v. 21 : For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. ). So the Romans are justified.

However, Paul then says that the Romans can also be cut off if they don’t persevere in faith and kindness (v. 22-23: See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. ). Hence, those justified before God can fall away from the faith and lose their salvation (be “cut off”).

Paul also says that those who are cut off can be grafted back in if they do not persist in their unbelief, for God has the power to graft them in again **(v.23 : And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.). **
These verses are devastating to the “once saved, always saved” position.

Hi Joey,
In Chapter 11 of Romans, I see Paul warning the Gentiles not to make the same mistake as Israel did in taking for granted that salvation was guaranteed even without the necessary proper belief (true faith) in the Lord Jesus Christ and His atonement for their sins.
Except for “a remnant according to the election of grace”, most of unbelieving Israel was further blinded by God, so that through Israel’s fall, salvation “is come unto the Gentiles for to provoke them (Israel) the natural branches to jealousy.”
Since Gentiles are “not the natural branches”, they are even more likely (and many are) to making the same mistake of unbelief in their “own conceits”.
What happened to Israel because of their unbelief, will also happen to the Gentile nations.
Out of both the Jews and the Gentiles, there will always be a chosen remnant of true believers. This group of true believers (the elect) can never be lost, and my understanding is that Paul is not talking about the elect in Chapter 11.
God Bless