For The Latin Catholics Only!

[Stathios]

Hello Everybody,

I like to start this thread asking all the Latin rite Catholics a simple question.

Since there is so much beauty in The Byzantine Catholic’s Liturgy, and their clergy are allowed to marry. I wonder why a person would want to be a latin rite Catholic?

It makes nosense to me. Can anybody inlighten me?

Stathios

 

[the_phoenix]

Dear Stathios,

When I made a youth pilgrimage to Fatima, Portugal, I had the wonderful opportunity to attend a beautiful Byzantine Rite Catholic Mass. Since I was attending with a group of devout Catholics who could be counted on to follow the Pope, I felt completely comfortable.

Back in the United States, not being culturally from an ethnic group who would normally attend a Byzantine Rite Mass based on family tradition, I am one who is easily confused by the names of all the different Eastern-sounding Churches surrounding me. Some are in full union with the Vatican, others not, and I find it hard to tell just by the name of the Church whether I can validly attend Mass there … and so I attend Mass at a Latin rite … and sometimes Latin-speaking! … parish, just to be on the safe side.

So basically in my case, I need to be educated. I suppose I could go through a phone book and start calling around to the various churches to see whether they are Catholic or non-Catholic … the thing is, I live in an area with many ethnic groups, so I would have a long list to go through.

Are there any easy ways to tell a Byzantine Catholic Church from a non-Catholic Orthodox Church, just by looking at the name of the Church?

Thank you for any help,

~~ the phoenix

 

[Marilena]

Hello Everybody,

I like to start this thread asking all the Latin rite Catholics a simple question.

Since there is so much beauty in The Byzantine Catholic’s Liturgy, and their clergy are allowed to marry. I wonder why a person would want to be a latin rite Catholic?

It makes nosense to me. Can anybody inlighten me?

Stathios

Why not? i attend the Traditonal Latin Mass, and it is very reverent and very beautiful. It is enough for me.i find the TLM very beautiful. So the priests do not marry, what is the big deal?

its not for me.

 

[Image_of_God]

Hello Everybody,

I like to start this thread asking all the Latin rite Catholics a simple question.

Since there is so much beauty in The Byzantine Catholic’s Liturgy, and their clergy are allowed to marry. I wonder why a person would want to be a latin rite Catholic?

It makes nosense to me. Can anybody inlighten me?

Stathios

There is beauty in the Latin Mass, too. Any place there is the Eucharist is beauty.
There is more to being a priest than being able to be married. Reasonable people know why Priests in the Latin Rite are required to remain celibate. It is so that the Priest can be more of a father to his parish, instead being carried away by his children and wife. St. Paul said that one who is unmarried is more devoted to God than a married person, because the married person tries to please his wife and children, while the unmarried person can single mindedly focus on God.
The Latins are accused of being very legalistic approaching theology. But, this makes no sense to me. Yes, Latin theology is somewhat scholastic, but it shows the beauty of human reason and shows simplicity, that is if you have ever read St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, etc.
But, the reason why it makes no sense to you is because you think of beauty as outside, so to speak. I think you forget that beauty is God, from God and in God. Therefore anything given to and dedicated to God is beautiful. The Latin mass is not as “unbeautiful” as you have come to think.

 

[lak611]

Some are in full union with the Vatican, others not, and I find it hard to tell just by the name of the Church whether I can validly attend Mass there … and so I attend Mass at a Latin rite … and sometimes Latin-speaking! … parish, just to be on the safe side.

Well, if you attend a parish that speaks Latin, you have to make sure it is an indult parish. It could be SSPX.

 

[whosebob]

Since there is so much beauty in The Byzantine Catholic’s Liturgy …

There can be great beauty in liturgies of the Latin Church as well; see for example: Tridentine Missa Cantata (Sung Latin Mass) for the Last Sunday after Pentecost.

… and their clergy are allowed to marry. I wonder why a person would want to be a latin rite Catholic? It makes nosense to me. Can anybody inlighten me?

Jesus speaking to His disciples taught them:

“Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.” (Matthew 19:11-12 [RSV])

In the Eastern Churches, there are monastic clergy who embrace this “evangelical counsel of chastity” (as we call it in the West); and there are also clergy who are married, that is they were ordained as priests or deacons some time after they were married.

In the Latin Church, it is our tradition to admit only unmarried men to preparation for the priesthood, and all of our priests – monastic/religious and diocesan – are required to make promises/vows of celibacy (i.e. in an absolute, external embrace of the evangelical counsel of chastity) at the time they are ordained. To imitate Our Lord Jesus, and St. Paul as well, in this fashion can certainly be a cross, but the sacrifice is made for the sake of the kingdom of heaven and is also a source of grace and a means of perfection in Christian charity.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Hello Everybody,

I like to start this thread asking all the Latin rite Catholics a simple question.

Since there is so much beauty in The Byzantine Catholic’s Liturgy, and their clergy are allowed to marry. I wonder why a person would want to be a latin rite Catholic?

It makes nosense to me. Can anybody inlighten me?

Stathios

Because I am a Latin Catholic! I can attend Divine Liturgy and receive the Eucharist at the local Byz. Rite parish (and do) and still hold on to my theological traditions and Western heritage.

Also, NO clergy in any of the Apostolic Traditions are allowed to marry. They may be married before they are ordained, but they CANNOT get married after ordination, period.

 

[Image_of_God]

Because I am a Latin Catholic! I can attend Divine Liturgy and receive the Eucharist at the local Byz. Rite parish (and do) and still hold on to my theological traditions and Western heritage.

Also, NO clergy in any of the Apostolic Traditions are allowed to marry. They may be married before they are ordained, but they CANNOT get married after ordination, period.

What?!?!

The NO clergy are not allowed to get married. Priests cannot be married at all, unless the might have come from Protestant denominations, but other than that they cannot be married at all. Any one who becomes married is not able to go for the priesthood. The monks and nuns people are not allowed to get married either.

 

[Rolltide]

What?!?!

The NO clergy are not allowed to get married. Priests cannot be married at all, unless the might have come from Protestant denominations, but other than that they cannot be married at all. Any one who becomes married is not able to go for the priesthood. The monks and nuns people are not allowed to get married either.

LOL… he literally meant the word “no”, not the abbreviation N.O.

 

[Image_of_God]

LOL… he literally meant the word “no”, not the abbreviation N.O.

:bigyikes: I am so sorry!

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

:bigyikes: I am so sorry!

NO problem, bro!

 

[the_phoenix]

Well, if you attend a parish that speaks Latin, you have to make sure it is an indult parish. It could be SSPX.

It’s cool, lak611,

I made sure to ask a parish priest which one out of the two Latin Mass parishes in my area was approved by the Bishop, and received a clear and simple answer. The parish in the heart of downtown is the indult approved and officially Catholic one.

With the Byzantine rite, again, there are so many churches near me with Eastern-sounding names, that it would be quite a bit more complicated to figure it all out.

Thank you for your concern, because you’re right … I was unable to tell just by looking that the other Latin-speaking church was an SSPX … confusingly enough, it sure had Catholic-sounding name.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Image_of_God]

NO problem, bro!

I had NO brains that time.

 

[the_phoenix]

Hmmmmm, … “NO clergy” … would that refer to clergy from New Orleans?

~~ the phoenix

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

There is beauty in the Latin Mass, too. Any place there is the Eucharist is beauty.
There is more to being a priest than being able to be married. Reasonable people know why Priests in the Latin Rite are required to remain celibate. It is so that the Priest can be more of a father to his parish, instead being carried away by his children and wife. St. Paul said that one who is unmarried is more devoted to God than a married person, because the married person tries to please his wife and children, while the unmarried person can single mindedly focus on God.
The Latins are accused of being very legalistic approaching theology. But, this makes no sense to me. Yes, Latin theology is somewhat scholastic, but it shows the beauty of human reason and shows simplicity, that is if you have ever read St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, etc.
But, the reason why it makes no sense to you is because you think of beauty as outside, so to speak. I think you forget that beauty is God, from God and in God. Therefore anything given to and dedicated to God is beautiful. The Latin mass is not as “unbeautiful” as you have come to think.

I agree with you. The beauty of the Mass is in God, so the Latin Rite is just as beautiful spiritually speaking. There may be asthetically pleasing elements to the Byzantine Mass (I can’t say as I haven’t been to one) and since it is in communion with Rome one may certainly enjoy and appreciate it more than a Latin Mass. Either way, the marital status of the priest is irrelevant, IMHO. As far as I am concerned, I actually appreciate and approve of the discipline practiced in the West. I suppose Paul’s words about the devotion to God in an unmarried man resonate with me. “The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided”.

This is not to say that I would have a fit and leave the Latin Rite if they suddenly changed this discipline. Nor am I attempting to be superior or put down the disciplines of the East. All I am saying is that I appreciate and prefer this discipline for our priests.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

It makes nosense to me. Can anybody inlighten me?

Stathios

I can enlighten you. Perhaps because there is beauty to be found wherever the Eucharist is present and that person is in commuion with the Chair of Peter, the rock, on which the Church was founded?

 

[Joe_Monahan]

Stathios,

Although I am certain that you meant no disrespect by the question posed - and the answers offered have explained, reasonably well, the “why” which you sought, I am closing the thread for a couple of reasons:

I adhere, strongly, in the moderation of this forum to two precepts enunciated by another forum member (in slightly different circumstances, but which have equal applicability here). I was going to paraphrase his remarks, but decided better of it and searched out the quotes:
Irish Melkite:

It is neither our place as guests here, nor our place as -]Eastern/-] Catholics, to make disparaging comments on the Latin Church’s liturgical forms of worship.

(edited to strike Eastern)

and
Irish Melkite:

The Novus Ordo Mass is neither less authentic nor holy than the Tridentine Mass; each, as a service of worship directed to God, has its own intrinsic holiness when served faithfully and reverently. To the extent that abuses exist within either, they must needs be addressed; but the form is only that - an external; ultimately, worship comes from within oneself, one’s heart and soul. That said, any valid celebration of the Mass is a recreation of the Last Supper and cannot be other than intrinsically holy, albeit it may be licit or illicit, depending on the cicumstances surrounding its service.

I would posit that the second of Neil’s quoted remarks has equal applicability were one to rephrase the opening sentence to read:

The Novus Ordo and Tridentine Masses are neither less authentic nor holy than the Divine Liturgy, the Holy Qurbono, the Soorp Badarak, the Service of the Divine & Holy Mysteries, or the Holy Raza;

and I suspect that my brother would concur with such a reworking of his sentiments.

I would, btw, close a similar thread directed at Antiochian or ROCOR Orthodox of the Western Rite, asking why - if they chose Orthodoxy, they did not choose it in its Eastern form.

Thanks to all who participated in the thread; it is now closed.

Joe