For Zundrah, why she is confused

[jmcrae]

This;

I was taking RCIA but my college evening classes over run it and I couldn’t go to RCIA anymore… I thought to my self, this Eucharist can’t possibly be part and parcel of my salvation, can it? If I can’t take it now? I have to wait a whole year again! What if I die before comfirmation? I won’t be raised on the last day? That can’t be true…

Zundrah, the reason for taking RCIA is in order to prepare yourself spiritually not only to receive the Eucharist, but also to live the Catholic life. This can’t happen overnight.

If (God forbid) you happen to die before you receive the Sacraments, God is not going to hold it against you. This doesn’t mean that the Sacraments aren’t important, though - it just means that God understands that you are not able to receive them right now.

If you can’t make it to the classes, keep in touch somehow with your group, anyway, so that when things get better, you can re-join your group “in progress” rather than having to start all over again. For example, ask for the homework assignments each week (and actually do them), and keep in regular touch with your classmates, for example at Mass, and other places where they are likely to be.

 

[Zundrah]

Zundrah, the reason for taking RCIA is in order to prepare yourself spiritually not only to receive the Eucharist, but also to live the Catholic life. This can’t happen overnight.

If (God forbid) you happen to die before you receive the Sacraments, God is not going to hold it against you. This doesn’t mean that the Sacraments aren’t important, though - it just means that God understands that you are not able to receive them right now.

If you can’t make it to the classes, keep in touch somehow with your group, anyway, so that when things get better, you can re-join your group “in progress” rather than having to start all over again. For example, ask for the homework assignments each week (and actually do them), and keep in regular touch with your classmates, for example at Mass, and other places where they are likely to be.

Wow, you made me a thread!

Hmm… back to the main point! RCIA, Catholicism and the Eucharist? I need none of them… Faith in Christ is all I need.

 

[jmcrae]

Wow, you made me a thread!

Hmm… back to the main point! RCIA, Catholicism and the Eucharist? I need none of them… Faith in Christ is all I need.

Faith in Christ is a starting point, and it’s very important. What you do with it, is what is important, ultimately. Best of luck to you.

 

[Zundrah]

Faith in Christ is a starting point, and it’s very important. What you do with it, is what is important, ultimately. Best of luck to you.

Best of luck!? Did you know that there is a guy in my methodist chruch who goes mad when some one says Good Luck! LOL - But seriousy, the Eucharist is not an essential for our salvation? Like baptism?

 

[jmcrae]

Best of luck!? Did you know that there is a guy in my methodist chruch who goes mad when some one says Good Luck! LOL - But seriousy, the Eucharist is not an essential for our salvation? Like baptism?

It is essential, but not for people who can’t receive it, either because they haven’t completed their preparations for First Holy Communion (ie: children under the age of 7, or members of RCIA), or else because they are in a state of mortal sin, or because they are not disposed to receive it for some other reason (haven’t fasted for one hour beforehand, or didn’t arrive at Mass in time to hear the Gospel, or some other reason).

Once a person is both eligible and disposed to receive it, then yes, they should receive it. But not before or outside of that. Does it make sense, now?

Do you think that God would hold it against a six year old child if she died before her First Holy Communion? Surely not. So, why would He hold it against you?

Also, you know that baptism is essential, but also that those members of your RCIA group who aren’t baptized also have to wait until they have completed RCIA before they can be baptized. They are waiting patiently - so can you!

 

[Zundrah]

It is essential, but not for people who can’t receive it, either because they haven’t completed their preparations for First Holy Communion (ie: children under the age of 7, or members of RCIA), or else because they are in a state of mortal sin, or because they are not disposed to receive it for some other reason (haven’t fasted for one hour beforehand, or didn’t arrive at Mass in time to hear the Gospel, or some other reason).

Once a person is both eligible and disposed to receive it, then yes, they should receive it. But not before or outside of that. Does it make sense, now?

Do you think that God would hold it against a six year old child if she died before her First Holy Communion? Surely not. So, why would He hold it against you?

Also, you know that baptism is essential, but also that those members of your RCIA group who aren’t baptized also have to wait until they have completed RCIA before they can be baptized. They are waiting patiently - so can you!

But **please just tell me **what difference there **will be **when I go to heaven having taken the Eucharist or not?

 

[JRKH]

But **please just tell me **what difference there **will be **when I go to heaven having taken the Eucharist or not?

The Eucharist is the Greatest Gift that Our Dear Lord gave to His Church. The Graces that flow from this are of the most beautiful. It is the oportunity to Have Christ physically inside of you, body blood soul and divinity. Not just a spiriual presence, although tis is also wonderful, but His actual physical presence.
I tell you truly dear Zundrah, I did not realize how much I missed and needed the Eucharist until I returned to the Church and was again able to receive.

You have been on a bit of a roller coaster I understand in so far as getting into the Church. This has caused you grief and doubt. I understand that too.

If you make it to heaven without having received the Eucharist, there will, of course, be no difference for heaven is a place of perfection in Love and the Glory of God. However, to let pass the wondress and highly beneficial graces that flow from the Sacraments, in particular the Eucharist, places a much greater burden upon you on your journey.
I think that is the real crux of the matter. As the church teaches, it isn’t that one cannot achieve heaven outside of the Catholic Church, it is simply more difficult.

Be patient and persevere.

Peace
James

 

[Zundrah]

The Eucharist is the Greatest Gift that Our Dear Lord gave to His Church. The Graces that flow from this are of the most beautiful. It is the oportunity to Have Christ physically inside of you, body blood soul and divinity. Not just a spiriual presence, although tis is also wonderful, but His actual physical presence.
I tell you truly dear Zundrah, I did not realize how much I missed and needed the Eucharist until I returned to the Church and was again able to receive.

You have been on a bit of a roller coaster I understand in so far as getting into the Church. This has caused you grief and doubt. I understand that too.

If you make it to heaven without having received the Eucharist, there will, of course, be no difference for heaven is a place of perfection in Love and the Glory of God. However, to let pass the wondress and highly beneficial graces that flow from the Sacraments, in particular the Eucharist, places a much greater burden upon you on your journey.
I think that is the real crux of the matter. As the church teaches, it isn’t that one cannot achieve heaven outside of the Catholic Church, it is simply more difficult.

Be patient and persevere.

Peace
James

As always, the Eucharist does make no sense to me… There are people who can **never **take it, in Africa where there may not even be a chruch. Explain that one?

 

[kage_ar]

As always, the Eucharist does make no sense to me… There are people who can **never **take it, in Africa where there may not even be a chruch. Explain that one?

We trust them to the mercy of God.

Unless you live in a remote African village where you have never heard of Christ or His Church, then… it is time to decide, was Jesus lying in John chapter 6?

If Jesus WAS telling the truth in that passage, then, what is more important, a college class or heaven?

 

[JRKH]

As always, the Eucharist does make no sense to me… There are people who can **never **take it, in Africa where there may not even be a chruch. Explain that one?

If a person is in a position where they are limited in their food source to Bread, Water, an occasional fruit or vegatable and the rare bit of meat, they could live to old age.
However, if that person knew of, and could gain access to, an immense feast available each and every day and consisting of all sorts of meats, vegetables, fruits, beverages, breads, and every life giving nutrient in just the right proportions and filled with the most glorious flavors and textures, would not the person do all the could to gain access to said feast?

For the elleged person in africa who has no access to the Eucharist, God will apply His mercy as appropriate.
You on the other hand DO have access to the Eucharist and God is calling you to join the Wedding feast. Do you do what it takes to join the feast? Or do you remain outside becuase you are too use to just bread and water?

Peace
James

 

[Zundrah]

If a person is in a position where they are limited in their food source to Bread, Water, an occasional fruit or vegatable and the rare bit of meat, they could live to old age.
However, if that person knew of, and could gain access to, an immense feast available each and every day and consisting of all sorts of meats, vegetables, fruits, beverages, breads, and every life giving nutrient in just the right proportions and filled with the most glorious flavors and textures, would not the person do all the could to gain access to said feast?

For the elleged person in africa who has no access to the Eucharist, God will apply His mercy as appropriate.
You on the other hand DO have access to the Eucharist and God is calling you to join the Wedding feast. Do you do what it takes to join the feast? Or do you remain outside becuase you are too use to just bread and water?

Peace
James

But it makes no sense what so ever! I mean… I just don’t know!

 

[JRKH]

But it makes no sense what so ever! I mean… I just don’t know!

The Glories of the Gifts God has given us are, ultimately, mysteries.
We simply cannot know in any full sense how or why they work.

I wish I had better words for you dear Zundrah, but I do not. Perhaps the Holy spirit will inspire me tonight. He sometimes does about 15 minutes after I lay down to sleep.

In the meantime I will provide you with this **link to the Catechism section on the Eucharist. ** I ask that you read this over and see if it helps at all.

Peace
James

 

[PRmerger]

If a person is in a position where they are limited in their food source to Bread, Water, an occasional fruit or vegatable and the rare bit of meat, they could live to old age.
However, if that person knew of, and could gain access to, an immense feast available each and every day and consisting of all sorts of meats, vegetables, fruits, beverages, breads, and every life giving nutrient in just the right proportions and filled with the most glorious flavors and textures, would not the person do all the could to gain access to said feast?

Similarly, if a person is in a loving relationship with her Beloved and could enjoy the intimacy and joy of the marital embrace, why would she not do all she could to make this possible?

The CC teaches that the one flesh union parallels the Eucharist in that it is the most intimate of unions–the fullest manifestation of communion. The 2 become One Flesh, in the marital act, and in the Eucharist. Read the Catechism source cited earlier for more on that, Zundrah.

 

[JRKH]

Similarly, if a person is in a loving relationship with her Beloved and could enjoy the intimacy and joy of the marital embrace, why would she not do all she could to make this possible?

The CC teaches that the one flesh union parallels the Eucharist in that it is the most intimate of unions–the fullest manifestation of communion. The 2 become One Flesh, in the marital act, and in the Eucharist. Read the Catechism source cited earlier for more on that, Zundrah.

Thanks PR. A much better analogy

Peace
James

 

[StillWondering]

I do not know you and your particular situation even with your description. I just know that if you know that Christ founded the Catholic Church and Christ tells us to eat his real flesh and drink his real blood, then I think you are obligated to find a way to do so or else you are not doing God’s will. Once again I repeat I do not know your situation nor dare to tell you what is sinful or not. I can tell you what I understand objectively.

Now as for RCIA conflicting with classes. You have options. The first option, one that may not be wise for you is to drop that class and take RCIA anyways. Another, a usually wiser option though not always is to go to a different parish. RCIA hours varies quite a bit from parish to parish. I see some with morning classes, some with evening classes, some on Saturday, and some on Sunday. For sure you can not be in class all the time. Now if you cannot do that either since the hours available at all the parishes near by are not going to work for you, you still have an option or two left. Your next option is to contact a parish and let them know your situation. If you feel that you need to enter the Church this RCIA year then tell them such. There is likely someone who can help you. I know parishes, priests, deacons, and volunteers that are willing to do this for you as an act of charity. If all this fails, then you can pray to God so that he surely protects you for another year or two so you can enter the faith the following year and plan your schedule accordingly.

Those are some ideas I think may be useful for you.

 

[Answersplease]

This;

I was taking RCIA but my college evening classes over run it and I couldn’t go to RCIA anymore… I thought to my self, this Eucharist can’t possibly be part and parcel of my salvation, can it? If I can’t take it now? I have to wait a whole year again! What if I die before comfirmation? I won’t be raised on the last day? That can’t be true…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=379127

I hear “Midnight Mass” is a very beautiful sight to see.

With Christmas coming up, you might want to cordially keep promoting the idea that it would be very nice to see the Midnight Mass at the nearest Catholic Cathedral.

Q:“ Why is the Mass called the “unbloody” sacrifice of our Lord on his cross?
”A: It’s quite simple, really. The Mass is called an unbloody sacrifice to clarify the fact that we do not behold the Lord’s bloody body as it was seen on Calvary. Instead his body and blood are under the appearances of bread and wine. But it is the same sacrifice. This distinction became necessary as the result of the denial of the Mass being a sacrifice by various Protestant groups.

Fr. Vincent Serpa

catholic.com/thisrock/qui…word/sacrifice

THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS

One Catholic doctrine that has been under threat is the sacrificial nature of the Mass. Some have tried to portray the Eucharist simply as a fellowship meal among Christians in which we receive Jesus. But it is more. The Pope stresses:

“The Eucharist is a sacrifice in the strict sense, and not only in a general way, as if it were simply a matter of Christ’s offering himself to the faithful as their spiritual food. The gift of his love and obedience to the point of giving his life is in the first place a gift to his Father. Certainly it is a gift given for our sake, and indeed that of all humanity, yet it is first and foremost a gift to the Father” (13).

Against the horizontal or community-centered approach taken in many parishes, the Pope reminds us that the primary dimension of the Eucharist is vertical or God-centered: The Eucharist makes present Christ’s sacrifice in which he gives himself in love to the Father for our sake.

Christ clearly intended the Eucharist to be understood as a sacrifice, as the Pope points out: “In instituting it, he did not merely say: ‘This is my body,’ ‘this is my blood,’ but went on to add: ‘which is given for you,’ ‘which is poured out for you.’ Jesus did not simply state that what he was giving them to eat and drink was his body and his blood; he also expressed its sacrificial meaning and made sacramentally present his sacrifice which would soon be offered on the Cross for the salvation of all” (12).

catholic.com/library/cag_…eucharista.asp

Malachi 1:6
A son honors his father, and a servant fears his master; If then I am a father, where is the honor due to me? And if I am a master, where is the reverence due to me?-- So says the LORD of hosts to you, O priests, who despise his name. But you ask, “How have we despised your name?”
Malachi 1:7
By offering polluted food on my altar! Then you ask, “How have we polluted it?” By saying the table of the LORD may be slighted!
Malachi 1:8
2 When you offer a blind animal for sacrifice, is this not evil? When you offer the lame or the sick, is it not evil? Present it to your governor; see if he will accept it, or welcome you, says the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 1:9
So now if you implore God for mercy on us, when you have done the like Will he welcome any of you? says the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 1:10
3 Oh, that one among you would shut the temple gates to keep you from kindling fire on my altar in vain! I have no pleasure in you, says the LORD of hosts; neither will I accept any sacrifice from your hands,

Malachi 1:11
For from the rising of the sun, even to its setting, my name is great among the nations; And everywhere they bring sacrifice to my name, and a pure offering; For great is my name among the nations, says the LORD of hosts.

Everywhere the Nations (Gentiles), bring a PURE offering to sacrifice to the LORD.
There is only one religion I can think of that has fulfilled that scripture.

 

[Answersplease]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=380582

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
So my first question - Why be Catholic?

Because Jesus The Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.
The Catholic Church is the mystical body of Christ.
And the Catholic Church has The Eucharist which is the body, blood, soul, and divinity of the Lord Jesus The Christ.
Rejecting the Catholic Church is like rejecting Jesus The Christ Himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
far easier to be a protestant; no confession, no fasting, no Hell if you miss a Holy Day.

Easier life maybe in SOME cases, but they do NOT have the same assurance of salvation.
I would even say it is HARDER for them to attain salvation, especially in the more heretical Protestant groups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
Protestants are baptised Christians and earnestly seek the Lord and therefore have access to the same Salvation as baptised Catholics, yes?

Yes, the same Salvation, but NOT the same assurance of Salvation.
If a Protestant prays to God for forgiveness, I doubt that they will physically hear God’s voice answering them.
When a Catholic goes to the Sacrament of Confession, the priest actually absolves the Catholic “in persona Christi” meaning the absolution actually came from Christ Himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
Catholics just seem to have a much rougher go of it.

To whom much is given, much is expected.
The Catholics have the fulness of the Truth, that gives them the most responsibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
Second question - How can we be sure of our own salvation?

Trust that God loves you.
Trust that He has a plan to save you, namely His Son Jesus and the Church Jesus built,
The Catholic Church has the ONLY reasonable claim to be that Church.
You just have to accept that salvation plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
I am devout practicing Catholic. I am Baptised and routinely exercise the gift of the Sacraments as often as possible. I seek Him the best I can. Is that enough?

Partaking of the Sacraments, especially the Sacrament of Confession, yes it is enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
Why or why not?

Because, if you confess your sins to a Catholic Priest, then the Priest can absolve your sins “in persona Christi”, meaning it is really Christ Himself who absolves your sins.
Then if you can remain without mortal sins until your death, then you will make it to heaven eventually. If you commit more mortal sins in the meantime, then go to Confession again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
Yes, I know we should “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” but right now I need more than that.

If you think that GOD NEVER ABANDONED the Church He built, then The Holy Spirit must have protected that Church.
The Catholic Church has the ONLY reasonable claim to be that Church.
The Protestants will claim that the True Church is not visible, meaning that the True Church encompasses many different denominations and that they can agree on “important” issues and disagree on “non-important” issues.
That is a weak defense and they delude themsleves. The Protestant denominations don’t agree on BOTH “important” and “non-important” issues. Also, who gets to decide what is an “important” issue, they don’t even agree on that.
If they are all part of the True Church, then The Holy Spirit should be guiding them; if The Holy Spirit is guiding them, then why don’t they all agree?
Protestants who hear the arguments that the Catholic Church has the fulness of The Truth and then they reject the Catholic Church, have placed themselves in a questionable salvation position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
Third question - Who is to say who can be Saved?

Lets say that “saved” means “make it to heaven”.
The Catholic Church’s Deposit Of Faith can say who can be saved.
Basically everyone can be saved, but the closer you are to the Truth, the more of an assurance you have that you will be saved. The farther away you are from the Truth, the less of an assurance you have that you will be saved.
The Catholic Chruch has the fullness of the Truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
No Salvation outside the Church unless…I’m confused.

Everyone who is properly baptised is part of the Catholic Church.
Everyone who desires the Truth and tries to live a good life has some kind of baptism that is acceptable to the Catholic Church: properly done water baptism, baptism of blood, explicit baptism of desire, and implicit baptism of desire. People who are “Invincibly Ignorant” will have one of these baptisms.
However those who hear an argument that the Truth is fully found in the Catholic Church and they reject that Truth or refuse to enquire about the Catholic Church, these people are in a precarious salvation position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
In case you haven’t gotten it through the above questions, I am struggling here.

You shall reap if you faint not, falling away after knowing the Truth puts you in a percarious salvation position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
My faith has been stretched and tested lately

I’m guessing thats because of all the uninformed Catholics, Cafeteria Catholics, heretics, and possible shills on this website.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
and I am earnestly seeking answers.

It is better to ask your questions in the Ask An Apologist section, if they don’t answer you, then do some searches on the CAF search function.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
So please prayerfully respond.

Sorry, I only gave you the answers. I think I got everything right, I apologize if I did’nt.
If not, hopefully there are some knowledgeable Catholics that can correct them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepsouthpapist
Thank you much and may God bless all of you!

Your welcome!

 

[StillWondering]

Those are great answers AnswersPlease. I hope those who read them and are not a fully practicing (as fully as possible for that individual) Catholic then they will pray with these answers and responses in mind. These are solid answers and directions to start one’s journey or restart it if it has started and been interrupted.