Forced to stand during Consecration in Seattle

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StBenMom said:
You have no idea what my family or parish’s relationship is with the Archbishop so maybe YOU need to tone it down a bit and stop being so condescending. He prefers the informal, especially when dealing with the parish children. “Archbishop Alex” is a little less “scary” and more “accessible” to some kids who have never dealt with him before or have not had many cathedral experiences. Frankly, I have called him Most Reverend Father, Archbishop Brunett, Father Alex, Archbishop Alex…depends on the situation, really. I am not here to debate what my priest, parish or children/family call our Archbishop. Frankly, that is between our parish/children/priest and the Archbishop and is not really a matter for your concern. I am here to defend him and his Archdiocese. I am not defending a few select priests who seem to think you should stand during consecration. That is a matter to take up with the Archbishop. How can he help the lay people if he doesn’t know??? Again…just so everyone understands, I am defending the statement made by salvo1:

BUT…you really shouldn’t concern yourself about what my children/family/parish calls him in an informal setting or any setting for that matter. It really, respectfully, is none of your business, considering you know nothing of my family or our Archbishop and what his request/preferences are.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program…
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Just one last word on the points you made. Inasmuch as I regret not knowing the relationship between you and your Metropolitan, it is more respectful to refer to him by Archbishop (Last Name) in forums such as this. We may not be as fortunate as you to have a close relationship with our Ordinaries/Metropolitans, but, since this is a somewhat public forum, the norm of etiquette would be to refer to him as Archbishop Brunett. Now, I’m close to my PV (parochial vicar), but, when I make references to him with others, I refer to him as Fr. Last Name. I have a couple of Paulist priest friends who like to be called simply by their first names among friends; however, in a public setting, it’s always Frs. Last Name. Protocol calls for that. Among friends and in an intimate setting, informality works; however, in public, it’s better to retain the formal.

I just wanted to clarify that with you so that you won’t think that I am merely shooting from the hip.
 
The following was taken DIRECTLY from the Pastoral and Sacramental Policies for the Archdiocese of Seattle

seattlearch.org/ArchdioceseWorking/PastoralSacramentalPolicies/

And here is the pdf file:
seattlearch.org/NR/rdonlyres/D853CD9E-A4B4-48FC-848B-1CBC68E16857/8814/Eucharist.pdf

CELEBRATION OF THE EUCHARIST IN PARISHES OF THE
ARCHDIOCESE
EU 1. Mass is to be celebrated with care and reverence in every
parish of the Archdiocese according to the current liturgical
books, canons, and norms set out by the universal Church and
the Archbishop in his role as moderator of the liturgy of the
local Church.
1.a. Care must be taken to insure that Mass is well prepared, is
given adequate financial and human resources, and is
designed to empower participants in living Christ’s mission
in the world.
1.b. In those things not specified by liturgical law or particular
law, the operative norm of the celebration of the Eucharist is
PMPG 6 Eucharist 0307
to ensure unity within the local Church. In presiding at
Mass, pastors are in communion with the Archbishop as
ordinary of the archdiocese.
1.c. In the dioceses of the United States of America the faithful
“should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the
Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer,
except when prevented on occasion by reasons of health,
lack of space, the large number of people present, or some
other good reason.” (GIRM, 43)

Now, how can he ask us to do one thing and then “force” some parishes to stand??? Do you now see that I have done my homework, attended and now attend parishes in Seattle/Western WA and at NO TIME was I forced to stand. My only point and the ONLY point I will debate.
 
StBenMom said:
The following was taken DIRECTLY from the Pastoral and Sacramental Policies for the Archdiocese of Seattle

seattlearch.org/ArchdioceseWorking/PastoralSacramentalPolicies/

And here is the pdf file:
seattlearch.org/NR/rdonlyres/D853CD9E-A4B4-48FC-848B-1CBC68E16857/8814/Eucharist.pdf

Now, how can he ask us to do one thing and then “force” some parishes to stand??? Do you now see that I have done my homework, attended and now attend parishes in Seattle/Western WA and at NO TIME was I forced to stand. My only point and the ONLY point I will debate.
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Okay. I think you’ll find that many of us have already made the points that you brought up in your post. It is most commendable that your Archdiocese has chosen to put this information on their website. However, if the OP does have a legitimate concern over how certain parishes in the Archdiocese are celebrating the Holy Sacrfice of the Mass, and, he can document these instances, he already has a path of recourse through Redemptionis Sacramentum.

Now, in fairness, have you gone to every single parish in your Archdiocese? Can you say, without a shadow of a doubt, that everyone is kneeling at all of the parishes in your Archdiocese?

My diocese is small. I have gone to just about every parish in my city (the seat of our diocese) and there are problems. The only places where I have not assisted at Mass are the colonia Missions (with the exception of two).

The bishop has been made aware and we are still awaiting action on his part. He did take action to nip a reprobated penance service before it could happen and he’s been trying to reign in some horribly abusive practices that go on during Nuptial Masses.

To the OP, I ask this question: is it only in your parish that this is happening or is it in other parishes throughout the Archdiocese? What steps have you taken to address the problem? Many of the posts have tried to address your situation, and, a couple have corroborated with their own experiences. If you wish to pursue this matter, you need to get your documentation straight. Making a blanket statement like the “Archdiocese is forcing us to kneel”, when there is evidence to the contrary on the website, is not going to help your case. If standing during the Consecration is happening, then you need to accurately document this and present the facts as mandated by Redemptionis Sacramentum.

I hope this helps.
 
Please forgive my insensitivity when I forgot to offer all of you the sign of peace. Peace be with all of you!

Yours in Christ Our Lord

A Catholic Mom:byzsoc:
 
benedictgal said:
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Now, in fairness, have you gone to every single parish in your Archdiocese? Can you say, without a shadow of a doubt, that everyone is kneeling at all of the parishes in your Archdiocese?
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I keep having to refer to my ONLY point, for some reason. I never said attended ALL parishes so that point is moot. What I said is that I attended several parishes throughout my life and I was never asked or “forced” to stand. I also never said that it isn’t occuring. What I said was that the Archbishop would NEVER FORCE standing during consecration! Again…my ONLY point is that the Seattle Archdiocese is NOT FORCING the standing during consecration. OK??? The Archdiocese is not FORCING people to stand during consecration. Please… that is my ONLY point!! And I supplied the necessary documentation to back my ONLY point up. Thank you for the lively debate! May the peace of Our Lord Jesus be with you.

P.S. I like your user name! Our Holy Father in Rome… St. Benedict…two of my favorite Catholics!
😉
 
StBenMom said:
I am not going to go into battles of wits with unarmed (or misinformed) individuals. .
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If you are truly interested in facts, the first nasy post was number 10, posted by StBenMom in which you said “I pray for your lying soul.” Perhaps those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. In addition to pray for the OP’s soul you should remember that judgement of the soul id reserved to God alone.
 
StBenMom said:
That is NOT true!!! I attend a parish within the Seattle Archdiocese AND have attended services at St.James Cathedral. At NO time did we “stand” during consecration. We kneel. It saddens me to see people just post stuff as the truth when they don’t even have a clue about what they are speaking. Please, actually ASK someone from the Seattle area first before you say horrid stuff. I have NEVER stood during consecration EVER!!! And, I have lived here my whole life, as a Catholic. Gimme a break. You have OBVIOUSLY, NEVER met Archbishop Alex. He never FORCES anyone to do anything.
I pray for your lying soul. Hopefully you will see how hateful, hurtful and uneducated your remark was
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Please, apologize. I have also been in numerous parishes in the Seattle Archdiocese and there are indeed a number of parishes where the parishioners don’t kneel, but they’ve built new churches that don’t have kneelers and are designed so that a person has to be an acrobat (and young and thin) to kneel sideways. You have apparently been lucky in the parishes you’ve attended. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.
 
StBenMom said:
I keep having to refer to my ONLY point, for some reason. I never said attended ALL parishes so that point is moot. What I said is that I attended several parishes throughout my life and I was never asked or “forced” to stand. I also never said that it isn’t occuring. What I said was that the Archbishop would NEVER FORCE standing during consecration! Again…my ONLY point is that the Seattle Archdiocese is NOT FORCING the standing during consecration. OK??? The Archdiocese is not FORCING people to stand during consecration. Please… that is my ONLY point!! And I supplied the necessary documentation to back my ONLY point up. Thank you for the lively debate! May the peace of Our Lord Jesus be with you.

P.S. I like your user name! Our Holy Father in Rome… St. Benedict…two of my favorite Catholics!
😉
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Thank you, as well. I guess I misunderstood, as I thought that you had gone to several parishes around your area.

I am now going to bed. I had to take some work-related training online and, while I was waiting for each section to download, I figured I’d check the CA forums. Now that I’m through for the night, my dachshunds are telling me that they are tired. 😃 So am I.
Have a blessed Advent.
 
I attended parishes and now attend a parish under the Western Washington/Seattle Archdiocese. My whole life. My own experience has been that I was never forced to stand nor does the Seattle Archdiocese promote standing during the Consecration as I showed you in the Pastoral and Sacramental Policies of our Archbishop/Archdiocese. I was just so shocked that someone would make a blanket statement like that without doing their research (re:salvo1’s comment).It very well may be happening in some parishes, other members have experienced it, but we should all pray for the priest of those parishes. The parishoners should go to the Archbishop with their concerns. Have a good sleep and much peace to you.

To other replies:
Somehow by replying I am stooping to your level, but here goes… if someone writes a blatant untruth isn’t that a lie? If someone makes a blanket statement like “The Seattle AD practically forces you to stand during the consecration in many parishes here” without any investigation to pastoral policies of not only the Archdiocese but the church itself, when there is die hard proof to the contrary that the Archdiocese does NOT practically force nor promote people to stand during the Consecration, is that not a lie? Are they not lying or speaking untruth?
 
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