Former Episcopalian searching

[BernadetteM]

There is a map of emrging Anglican/Episcopal parishes/missions that are coming into the Ordinariate and it also includes Anglican Use Catholic parishes.

anglicancatholics.blogspot.com/

It might be helpful finding a parish close to you. If you go to “The Anglo Catholic” it has much information on what the progress is of the implementation of the Ordinariate in the US. There is discussion from posters on many different subjects pertaining to becoming Catholic and retaining the Anglican Patrimony and traditions.

My only advice is to keep praying that the Lord will lead you and your wife to His Church.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[exnihilo]

I am in a somewhat similar position. I’d say I’m exploring now, and not necessarily actively seeking. I’ve always had a respect and interest in the Catholic Church. That does not mean I agree with all the doctrine. I might agree with it, but it has not always been explained to me. And in my Protestant upbringing the doctrine was refuted or dismissed (not necessarily with good reason).

I’m in the process of investigating to find out the truth as best I can ascertain. My wife tends to dismiss the Catholic Church due to a lack of understanding of doctrine, this being the default position of Protestants. When I explain Catholic doctrine to her, once I understand it, she will often agree but still has some strong resistance to the idea of being Catholic.

I can say for me a non-denominational church is not an option. One reason is that such churches are really based mostly on the pastor. As soon as the pastor changes, an actual change in pastors or a change in opinion by the pastor, then the church itself changes. You might be looking for a new church or many of your fellow members might be.

Non-denominational churches are to a lesser extent based on the members. As the membership changes so does the doctrine as it reflects the majority view. If this changes then so does the church. It seems to me such churches are always in flux and ready to split apart.

To me such churches have no promise of longevity. They are very subject to the winds of change. I dont want to be back to this square one in five or ten years from now.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Throw out as many questions as you like! They are all welcomed. Do keep each thread to one topic though so posters can answer every question and be clear. (multiple questions in a thread can get muddy)

For myself it was in learning what the Church taught that I realized She was the Church established by Jesus. And having the Eucharist is the ultimate example of God’s love. No nondenominational church will have this.

i agree. the Eucharist in the Catholic church is the most beautifull example of God’s love.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

The term Nondenominational is a come-on. Most of them are out of a fundamentalist, anabaptist mold. They do seem to appeal to the young and to those who seek an emotive worship experience. In fact, about 90 % of church goers choose a church for reasons other than religious doctrine. Two of the strongest factors seem to be that friends go there or that they offer children’s programs and the family has children.

The two denominations closest in belief and practice to the Episcopal Church are Catholic, as a number of posters have mentioned, and Lutheran. If you have issues with such things as female clergy and homosexuality, then my branch of Lutheranism would not be acceptable, but another branch, such as the Missouri Synod or the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod might be a better fit.

If the issue is apostolic succession then the Catholic, Orthodox, or Coptic churches would be another set of choices. Since the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) is in full communion with the Episcopal Church, there is an ongoing effort to establish apostolic succession among ELCA clergy. In fact, more Lutheran churches left the ELCA over the issue of apostolic succession than over the issue of homosexual clergy.

 

[7_Sorrows]

The term Nondenominational is a come-on. Most of them are out of a fundamentalist, anabaptist mold. They do seem to appeal to the young and to those who seek an emotive worship experience. In fact, about 90 % of church goers choose a church for reasons other than religious doctrine. Two of the strongest factors seem to be that friends go there or that they offer children’s programs and the family has children.

The two denominations closest in belief and practice to the Episcopal Church are Catholic, as a number of posters have mentioned, and Lutheran. If you have issues with such things as female clergy and homosexuality, then my branch of Lutheranism would not be acceptable, but another branch, such as the Missouri Synod or the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod might be a better fit.

If the issue is apostolic succession then the Catholic, Orthodox, or Coptic churches would be another set of choices. Since the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) is in full communion with the Episcopal Church, there is an ongoing effort to establish apostolic succession among ELCA clergy. In fact, more Lutheran churches left the ELCA over the issue of apostolic succession than over the issue of homosexual clergy.

how will they establish apostolic succession among ELCA clergy? i am lost on that one.
i didn’t think that any lutheran churches were under apostolic succession. i once thought that the episcopal church was, but i know now there is no apostolic succession in that church either. sorry if i misunderstood what you posted.

 

[jesuspsr]

Welcome to CAF. And may the Holy Spirit guide you on your journey.

God bless

jesus g

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Hello. I am new to posting on this forum but have been reading for quite a while. My wife and I are both Episcopalians but have been searching for a new church for over two years due to the strife going on in the denomination. I have been studying and researching the Catholic Church to see if I could become a convert at some point. I know that my wife has no interest whatsoever and is very drawn to non-donominational churches and a specific one in the city that we live in. We have a new baby, and he has not been baptized. The church we have been going to does not baptize until they have reached the age of reason. I am posting this to seek advice from Catholics and non-Catholics as well. Thank you for any help!!

Welcome. This is a good place to ask questions about the Catholic faith. Just be open to God and go where He leads, and you will do well.

As far as your wife goes, the story is a familiar one. When I married, my wife was a Protestant and I was a Catholic. She converted to the Catholic faith five years after our wedding, just before our first child was born. I never would have expected it, but the Holy Spirit works quite well when I manage to stay out of His way.

As a Catholic, I can only say about baptism that I would feel much more comfortable with baptizing my child as soon as possible. Since you both come from an Episcopalian background, why don’t you look into going to an Episcopal church to have that taken care of. My understanding is that the Episcopal Church baptizes infants and the baptism is certainly valid and accepted by the Catholic Church. That would seem to address your concerns without appearing to push the Catholic conversion issue on your wife.

Again, welcome and feel free to ask questions.

Peace be with you,
Robert

 

[Nicea325]

Hello. I am new to posting on this forum but have been reading for quite a while. My wife and I are both Episcopalians but have been searching for a new church for over two years due to the strife going on in the denomination. I have been studying and researching the Catholic Church to see if I could become a convert at some point. I know that my wife has no interest whatsoever and is very drawn to non-donominational churches and a specific one in the city that we live in. We have a new baby, and he has not been baptized. The church we have been going to does not baptize until they have reached the age of reason. I am posting this to seek advice from Catholics and non-Catholics as well. Thank you for any help!!

Quick question? Why is your wife drawn to non-denominational churches?

 

[jwinch2]

Another thing for the OP to consider if you and your wife are not comfortable taking the plunge to Catholicism at this time is the Anglican Church in North America. They are a group that split off of the Episcopal Church for many of the very reasons that you have described above.

I would obviously love to see you and your family come into the Catholic Church, but that will or will not happen on your own time and with God’s assistance. In the meantime, the ANCA is pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, etc. and might allow you to maintain your faith until such time as you do or do not make a decision to do something else.

I would also continue to suggest looking into whether or not there is an Anglican use parish anywhere close to you.

God bless you, I hope it helps.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

Seven Sorrows, American Lutheranism grew in a period of such demand that clergy was needed without the time it would take to bring over pastors who made some claim of apostolic succession. Both European Lutherans and Anglicans claimed that apostolic succession could not be abrogated by the Catholic hierarchy. Needless to say, this claim is not accepted by Catholics nor by Orthodox.

To the end of re-establishing apostolic succession in the clergy, Episcopal bishops are now present at ELCA ordinations. This was one of the conditions for coming into full communion with each other. Of course, this applies only to the ELCA, not other Lutheran bodies.

 

[BernadetteM]

You must remember that only some Bishops within the Episcopal church were ordained by Old Catholics. Today now that there are women bishops and priests I would venture that the intention of their ordinations are null and void even if an Old Catholic were to ordain a Bishop or priest.

From what Ihave read there are some Lutherans in Europe who have had apostolic successful in the past, however, the state of so many of these churches today leaves a question as to if ordinations are valid but illilcit.

Of the two great Apiostolic Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, neither accept Anglican Orders as valid.

There is a group of Lutherans who are requesting to join the Ordinariate for Anglicans. At this time I have not heard anymore whether Rome has made any decision as to whether they will be part of the Ordinariate.

Yours in the Hearts of Jessus and Mary

 

[deskjockey]

Quick question? Why is your wife drawn to non-denominational churches?

Several reasons. One is the children’s ministry. Another is the large amount of young people that attend the church. For some reason it has a huge draw among the younger demographic and those with kids.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

cantuar.blogspot.com/

You might enjoy this website. Taylor Marshall is the owner. He was an Episcopal priest before his conversion. He deals with many issues which, I should think, would be of interest to Episcopalians. His conversion story is also posted there. He has a good book -*The Crucified Rabbi *- subtitle Judaism and the Origins of Catholic Christianity. Good writer. He has a family, BTW.

Jim Dandy

 

[Nicea325]

Several reasons. One is the children’s ministry. Another is the large amount of young people that attend the church. For some reason it has a huge draw among the younger demographic and those with kids.

Well you know the RCC does have plenty for children. All it takes is asking.

 

[Stalwart]

Another thing for the OP to consider if you and your wife are not comfortable taking the plunge to Catholicism at this time is the Anglican Church in North America. They are a group that split off of the Episcopal Church for many of the very reasons that you have described above.

I would obviously love to see you and your family come into the Catholic Church, but that will or will not happen on your own time and with God’s assistance. In the meantime, the ANCA is pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, etc. and might allow you to maintain your faith until such time as you do or do not make a decision to do something else.

I would have to stongly second this recommendation, as the ACNA embodies the old classical Anglicanism in a substantial way, without much of this liberalism that’s been polluting the Episcopalians in recent years.

 

[GKC]

I would have to stongly second this recommendation, as the ACNA embodies the old classical Anglicanism in a substantial way, without much of this liberalism that’s been polluting the Episcopalians in recent years.

But there is the female ordination issue, which inhabits some places in the ACNA.

GKC

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Bernadette,

You raise an interesting question. What if, say, a bishop were being consecrated in the Episcopal Church, and of the three bishops consecrating, one had orders from the Old Catholic line, another had orders from the Samuel Seabury line (first US Episcopal bishop who got his orders from the Scottish Episcopal Church, not the Church of England), and one a woman bishop. Would this consecrated bishop’s orders be valid through the Old Catholic line?

Methinks yes.

Similarly, the Moravian Church came into full communion with the Episcopal Church just last year (or was it this year?). The orders of the Moravian Church have more or less been accepted as valid by the RCC, as far as I know (it hinges on whether a particular bishop conferred them oh these many centuries ago). But the Moravian Church now has women bishops (don’t know how long this has been going on). So, assuming you can trace a line of male bishops with no female pollution (sorry!), one of these male bishops could also confer RCC accepted orders in the Episcopal Church.

Not that Episcopalians would have anything of it, but there you go.

Personally, I think Apostolicae Curae is a fascinating opinion piece, and no one has ever told me that it was issued with “infallibility”.

You must remember that only some Bishops within the Episcopal church were ordained by Old Catholics. Today now that there are women bishops and priests I would venture that the intention of their ordinations are null and void even if an Old Catholic were to ordain a Bishop or priest.

From what Ihave read there are some Lutherans in Europe who have had apostolic successful in the past, however, the state of so many of these churches today leaves a question as to if ordinations are valid but illilcit.

Of the two great Apiostolic Churches, Catholic and Orthodox, neither accept Anglican Orders as valid.

There is a group of Lutherans who are requesting to join the Ordinariate for Anglicans. At this time I have not heard anymore whether Rome has made any decision as to whether they will be part of the Ordinariate.

Yours in the Hearts of Jessus and Mary

 

[GKC]

Bernadette,

You raise an interesting question. What if, say, a bishop were being consecrated in the Episcopal Church, and of the three bishops consecrating, one had orders from the Old Catholic line, another had orders from the Samuel Seabury line (first US Episcopal bishop who got his orders from the Scottish Episcopal Church, not the Church of England), and one a woman bishop. Would this consecrated bishop’s orders be valid through the Old Catholic line?

Methinks yes.

Similarly, the Moravian Church came into full communion with the Episcopal Church just last year (or was it this year?). The orders of the Moravian Church have more or less been accepted as valid by the RCC, as far as I know (it hinges on whether a particular bishop conferred them oh these many centuries ago). But the Moravian Church now has women bishops (don’t know how long this has been going on). So, assuming you can trace a line of male bishops with no female pollution (sorry!), one of these male bishops could also confer RCC accepted orders in the Episcopal Church.

Not that Episcopalians would have anything of it, but there you go.

Personally, I think Apostolicae Curae is a fascinating opinion piece, and no one has ever told me that it was issued with “infallibility”.

If you mean was it ex cathedra, no. But it has no wiggle room, as then Cardinal Ratzinger said, in his Doctrinal Commentary on Ad Tuendam Fidem, in 1998:.

“With regard to those truths connected to revelation by historical necessity and which are to be held definitively, but are not able to be declared as divinely revealed, the following examples can be given: the legitimacy of the election of the Supreme Pontiff or of the celebration of an ecumenical council, the canonizations of saints (dogmatic facts), the declaration of Pope Leo XIII in the apostolic letter Apostolicae Curae on the invalidity of Anglican ordinations…”

I wouldn’t expect a change.

GKC