Fr. Benedict Groeschel: God is not Catholic, God is not Orthodox

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Sir, I used an analogy that depicted the historical sentiment of the groups that left the Church. I am not saying who was right or worng. I am not being disrespectful.
Jesus or the Apostles never said that one must leave the Church to build another. doing so you have become the judge of them and have declared yourself to be more rightous than others. St Paul have told us that we must not judge by appearance. just because things looks bad, it doesnt mean that the Church had fallen. Jesus is the Lord of the House and not the people. if clergies have fallen into fear and cannot defend the Faith for a time, we dont abandon the authority of the Church and go somewhere else. for there is no place to go, since there is only one Church.
 
Hi Joseph: I think we agree on most points and I like the way you think. My point doesn’t deny the role of faith or belief in Jesus. My problem is with short sightedness. God gave Christians a good path to Him through Jesus and that is great. The belief that all of the billions of people who lived before Jesus and all the billions who never heard of Him, and many more who still follow other paths to God are there only to serve as a backdrop in contrast to the divine effulgence of one brand of Christianity is a very foolish and small view of God. I think we each just have to humbly follow whatever path our God given proclivities lead us to, and accept that others are no less valid in doing the same.

Thanks again for the reply.🙂
thank God, God is not made by how we think. what i think and what God thinks is not the same. we dont simply choose to do what we think and expect God to be happy with us. if it was so, He would not have revealed Himself to us the way He did. He built a Church to go out to the world to teach all man. these man died for this Faith. if it is the way you think, than death for this Faith, would be worthless and untrue.
Jesus died. if it would be the way you think, than His death means nothing.

if it is the way you think, than Jesus coming to earth, would be completely unecessary. dont you think?
 
Jesus has an answer to that. He said to his apostles to obey the pharisees for they sat in the chair of Moses. not even the Lord of the House did not take the authority of the those He put in charge.
You can take any point on scripture and pin any number of meanings to it. The human intellect is diverse. I could take that same passage and give five or six perfectly well reasoned alternative explanations to the same passage, but this one only really requires common sense. If the pharisees who sit in the chair of Moses are carrying out acts that are clearly in error of God’s teachings, especially on a grand scale that includes wars, acts of aggression, torture and murder of “heretics,” is one to be obedient to them? Use your common sense and then there is no need to bend scripture this way or that simply to defend a point.
 
thank God, God is not made by how we think. what i think and what God thinks is not the same. we dont simply choose to do what we think and expect God to be happy with us. if it was so, He would not have revealed Himself to us the way He did. He built a Church to go out to the world to teach all man. these man died for this Faith. if it is the way you think, than death for this Faith, would be worthless and untrue.
Jesus died. if it would be the way you think, than His death means nothing.

if it is the way you think, than Jesus coming to earth, would be completely unecessary. dont you think?
Not at all. Jesus came to earth for a good reason, but if you fully understand Him, then death is totally unimportant. How He died only exemplifies that your death and mine are of no consequence. The whole point is that what He was and what you and I really are you were never born, nor can they ever die. Christ shed light on the illusion of death, and tried to share that light with humanity. Unfortunately, much of humanity has missed the point by focusing on the spectacle of His death in all of it’s morbid detail, rather than to see that death is the very thing that is to be transcended through following Christ. If you awaken the Christ within you, then yes, death has no meaning. You said that in light of my thinking, a form of faith that focuses on death and martyrdom and human sacrifice is meaningless. It is more than meaningless - it is tragic. His coming to earth was t o show you that the movie of life is only a manifestation of the light from the projector of God. It all comes from one source and is of that one source, and while the movie is engaging, it is not the ultimate reality. Jesus came to the theater to point our attention to the light from the projector, but most keep watching the movie, with all of it’s passing dramas, joys and tragedy. Look where He pointed, step in to the light of the Source and transcend the mutability and impermanence of what passes before you and through which you pass.
 
Hi Joseph: I think we agree on most points and I like the way you think. My point doesn’t deny the role of faith or belief in Jesus. My problem is with short sightedness. God gave Christians a good path to Him through Jesus and that is great. The belief that all of the billions of people who lived before Jesus and all the billions who never heard of Him, and many more who still follow other paths to God are there only to serve as a backdrop in contrast to the divine effulgence of one brand of Christianity is a very foolish and small view of God. I think we each just have to humbly follow whatever path our God given proclivities lead us to, and accept that others are no less valid in doing the same.

Thanks again for the reply.🙂
If you are right then we are each making ourselves our own god. If this were the right path was there any need for Jesus, the 10 comandments, the Bible, or a Church which the gates of hell would not prevail against. There once was a guy named Martin Luther who after leaving the Barn looked back and observed what he had set in progress: “Eventually there will be as many faiths (religions) as there are heads” I can’t say that he eventually returned to the barn but most horses do. We’ll be happy to see you when you return to the barn of the Bride of Christ.

May God bless and protect us,
JLC
 
Not at all. Jesus came to earth for a good reason, but if you fully understand Him, then death is totally unimportant. How He died only exemplifies that your death and mine are of no consequence. The whole point is that what He was and what you and I really are you were never born, nor can they ever die. Christ shed light on the illusion of death, and tried to share that light with humanity. Unfortunately, much of humanity has missed the point by focusing on the spectacle of His death in all of it’s morbid detail, rather than to see that death is the very thing that is to be transcended through following Christ. If you awaken the Christ within you, then yes, death has no meaning. You said that in light of my thinking, a form of faith that focuses on death and martyrdom and human sacrifice is meaningless. It is more than meaningless - it is tragic. His coming to earth was t o show you that the movie of life is only a manifestation of the light from the projector of God. It all comes from one source and is of that one source, and while the movie is engaging, it is not the ultimate reality. Jesus came to the theater to point our attention to the light from the projector, but most keep watching the movie, with all of it’s passing dramas, joys and tragedy. Look where He pointed, step in to the light of the Source and transcend the mutability and impermanence of what passes before you and through which you pass.
is this how hollywood sees Jesus?
 
You can take any point on scripture and pin any number of meanings to it. The human intellect is diverse. I could take that same passage and give five or six perfectly well reasoned alternative explanations to the same passage, but this one only really requires common sense. If the pharisees who sit in the chair of Moses are carrying out acts that are clearly in error of God’s teachings, especially on a grand scale that includes wars, acts of aggression, torture and murder of “heretics,” is one to be obedient to them? Use your common sense and then there is no need to bend scripture this way or that simply to defend a point.
i just showed a passage that is pertaining to what we are talking about. the human intellect is diverse but God is not diverse. you speak of violence done by the Church, but you have not mention one time the evil the world has done to the Church?
how many Catholics were killed just because they believe in Christ and were obedient to Christ in which He told them to do.

Jesus found a Church. this Church has a mission until the ends of time. no matter how you intellect leads you, this Church is still here because Christ is the one who determined. you and me will be gone soon, but the Church will go on. you will die and your intellect will die with you, but the Church will go on teaching all generation all that Christ has tought. you see, God still in charge.
 
mflorence, btw how can you be accepting of all faiths when they contradict each other in so many areas. Are you accepting of Wica, Satanism, Mormanism, Muslimism, Evangelisism and Catholicism. I don’t want to hijack this thread but some of us may need clarity on were you stand.

JLC
 
If you are right then we are each making ourselves our own god. If this were the right path was there any need for Jesus, the 10 comandments, the Bible, or a Church which the gates of hell would not prevail against. There once was a guy named Martin Luther who after leaving the Barn looked back and observed what he had set in progress: “Eventually there will be as many faiths (religions) as there are heads” I can’t say that he eventually returned to the barn but most horses do. We’ll be happy to see you when you return to the barn of the Bride of Christ.

May God bless and protect us,
JLC
The same could be said for any interpretation of scripture. God is what God is, and people have their images of Him in whatever regard they are capable, using the mind that God gave them. So whether it is God creating you or you creating God, it is by design something of an interactive process I would think. Once you get past the desperate need for absolute certainty on what this means or that, you can start to see.
 
mflorence, btw how can you be accepting of all faiths when they contradict each other in so many areas. Are you accepting of Wica, Satanism, Mormanism, Muslimism, Evangelisism and Catholicism. I don’t want to hijack this thread but some of us may need clarity on were you stand.

JLC
That is a very good question Jlcastagna, and you haven’t hijacked anything. The answer is very complicated (there is no short reply), but I would be happy to discuss it. I have to take my kids to the pool, but I will gladly get back to you with my thoughts on that, but only for your consideration, and not to presume that you would agree. I do appreciate your openness to discussion.
 
mflorence, btw how can you be accepting of all faiths when they contradict each other in so many areas. Are you accepting of Wica, Satanism, Mormanism, Muslimism, Evangelisism and Catholicism. I don’t want to hijack this thread but some of us may need clarity on were you stand.

JLC
Dear Jlcastagna: My sincere apologies for this being so long, but this is the shortest explanation I can give.

To understand my knowledge of God, one must first be willing to at least imagine letting go of this idea of their own individuality of what might be called the “small self.” Imagine instead a view that flows with what is now known about the universe we live in and the very nature of consciousness. We know now that beyond atomic and sub-atomic particles we can intuit a smallest unit of the physical world called strings, and these strings vibrate in such a way as to cause higher level structures such as atoms and molecules to create the things we see and experience, and this is boringly familiar of course to anyone familiar with QM, in which case I apologize for the replay. It has been inferred that consciousness causes them to take on form or “collapse into a reality” according to Erwin Schrödinger and many others. Particles such as photons exist as only wave potentials or potential realities until they are encountered by a conscious observer. This has been proven by observations in numerous experiments with particles and conscious observers, wherein the nature of a wave potential changes further back in an event continuum because of conscious observations made further downstream in the experiments. The conclusions one can draw from this are true revelations. The question arises then that if we cause what we see to happen, how is it that things existed eleven billion years ago across the universe? The answer is that something has always been watching and creating. This is the first snapshot in the multidimensional view it takes to get some small view of God.
Now, imagine that God has been creating and destroying universes over and over again and that there never was a start and nor will there be an end this. Consider that our cosmos is more likely to be cyclical rather than linear in nature, like the natural world around you. In our case, the vibration that caused our universe manifested (as most people agree) as a Big Bang, and probably most of them start that way. God is formless and beyond all of that, but He uses these vibrations as the causal force that activates creation over and over again.

Now that we have observed some links between the physical world and consciousness, something interesting happens. This part is at first a bit hard to accept from our self-centered perspective, but then it becomes liberating and then beautiful beyond belief. Consider that there really is no you, but only one consciousness in all the cosmos. Imagine that it experiences what it creates through the sentient beings it creates out of matter created in and of itself. If one were to fill a room with mirrors at all eight points of the compass and the floor and ceiling as well and then light a candle in the middle of the room we could illustrate this. The candle of course being God and the reflections being His creations. Collectively they exist together, the many dependent on the One, but the One further glorified by its many reflections. They are one interacting system with seemingly many forms, but they are actually one with the candle, in that they are all light, and from the same source. One light, shining as many forms. We get confused by getting identified with the sense organs and the mind that processes their (name removed by moderator)ut. But at a much deeper level, there is a much bigger, shared consciousness and we are part of that. In this regard, the human race is one big organism, but so too is the planet and also the cosmos through which it courses on its path. It follows that there has never been a time when you did not exist nor will there be a time when you don’t. Biblical nice reference: “before you were in the womb, I knew you.” If you would be so open minded as to relook at all of the scriptures from this view, they start to come to life. Consider when Jesus commanded to Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. From my view (if you were to step into my vantage point), He is saying a lot more than for us to just be nice. He is giving a glimpse into the connective nature of things - the One expressed in the many. At this point, one might be able to envision God and humankind differently from the far off King and His unworthy subjects. His connection with you is much deeper and so much more intimate, and therefore He loves everything far more than can be imagined, because He is nearer than the breath. He will lose none of it, for how can He lose what is part of Him?

There would be a lot more to explain, but none of us has years to talk on this and you have your beliefs to get back to. I have given you a very small peek at mine, and I thank you for your consideration, but perhaps you might now be able to see how I accept all faiths. No matter how off course anyone may be, they all belong to God and can only stray but so far and for so long. All paths eventually lead home. This is my belief, and I respectfully revere yours, because of course – you can’t miss.
 
Dear Jlcastagna: My sincere apologies for this being so long, but this is the shortest explanation I can give.

To understand my knowledge of God, one must first be willing to at least imagine letting go of this idea of their own individuality of what might be called the “small self.” Imagine instead a view that flows with what is now known about the universe we live in and the very nature of consciousness. We know now that beyond atomic and sub-atomic particles we can intuit a smallest unit of the physical world called strings, and these strings vibrate in such a way as to cause higher level structures such as atoms and molecules to create the things we see and experience, and this is boringly familiar of course to anyone familiar with QM, in which case I apologize for the replay. It has been inferred that consciousness causes them to take on form or “collapse into a reality” according to Erwin Schrödinger and many others. Particles such as photons exist as only wave potentials or potential realities until they are encountered by a conscious observer. This has been proven by observations in numerous experiments with particles and conscious observers, wherein the nature of a wave potential changes further back in an event continuum because of conscious observations made further downstream in the experiments. The conclusions one can draw from this are true revelations. The question arises then that if we cause what we see to happen, how is it that things existed eleven billion years ago across the universe? The answer is that something has always been watching and creating. This is the first snapshot in the multidimensional view it takes to get some small view of God.
Now, imagine that God has been creating and destroying universes over and over again and that there never was a start and nor will there be an end this. Consider that our cosmos is more likely to be cyclical rather than linear in nature, like the natural world around you. In our case, the vibration that caused our universe manifested (as most people agree) as a Big Bang, and probably most of them start that way. God is formless and beyond all of that, but He uses these vibrations as the causal force that activates creation over and over again.

Now that we have observed some links between the physical world and consciousness, something interesting happens. This part is at first a bit hard to accept from our self-centered perspective, but then it becomes liberating and then beautiful beyond belief. Consider that there really is no you, but only one consciousness in all the cosmos. Imagine that it experiences what it creates through the sentient beings it creates out of matter created in and of itself. If one were to fill a room with mirrors at all eight points of the compass and the floor and ceiling as well and then light a candle in the middle of the room we could illustrate this. The candle of course being God and the reflections being His creations. Collectively they exist together, the many dependent on the One, but the One further glorified by its many reflections. They are one interacting system with seemingly many forms, but they are actually one with the candle, in that they are all light, and from the same source. One light, shining as many forms. We get confused by getting identified with the sense organs and the mind that processes their (name removed by moderator)ut. But at a much deeper level, there is a much bigger, shared consciousness and we are part of that. In this regard, the human race is one big organism, but so too is the planet and also the cosmos through which it courses on its path. It follows that there has never been a time when you did not exist nor will there be a time when you don’t. Biblical nice reference: “before you were in the womb, I knew you.” If you would be so open minded as to relook at all of the scriptures from this view, they start to come to life. Consider when Jesus commanded to Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. From my view (if you were to step into my vantage point), He is saying a lot more than for us to just be nice. He is giving a glimpse into the connective nature of things - the One expressed in the many. At this point, one might be able to envision God and humankind differently from the far off King and His unworthy subjects. His connection with you is much deeper and so much more intimate, and therefore He loves everything far more than can be imagined, because He is nearer than the breath. He will lose none of it, for how can He lose what is part of Him?

There would be a lot more to explain, but none of us has years to talk on this and you have your beliefs to get back to. I have given you a very small peek at mine, and I thank you for your consideration, but perhaps you might now be able to see how I accept all faiths. No matter how off course anyone may be, they all belong to God and can only stray but so far and for so long. All paths eventually lead home. This is my belief, and I respectfully revere yours, because of course – you can’t miss.
You sound very much like a UU. :tiphat:
 
You sound very much like a UU. :tiphat:
Hi seeker57: Thank you for the reply. Actually, I am not a Unitarian, but I do admire their beliefs. I have had long discussions with some of them, and we are very similar. I gave a copy of the Upanishads to one of them, and she said it matched her beliefs perfectly. I think they are very forward thinking. I do think that the UU way of thinking is the direction in which many Western religions are moving. I have spoken with Methodist and Baptist ministers, and have read a good deal from an Episcopal bishop who think the same way.Thanks again! 🙂
 
I just had one for lunch. It said: “what if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?” Lucky number: 10 19 27 34.:tiphat:
 
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