Fr. Z: Recent survey concerning the TLM: 2-1 of those with opinions favor a TLM option

[ibkc]

A reader alerted me – mired as I was in the midst of computer battles – about a survey recently conducted by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate of Jesuit run Georgetown University about the availability of the older, Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.

The survey found that those Catholics in the United States having any opinion at all on the topic favor the availability of the TLM by a two to one margin, with the majority having no opinion.

When asked “Do you favor as an alternative to the newer Mass, bringing back the older Latin Tridentine Mass for those who would prefer this option?”

25% favor the option, 12% oppose it, and 63% have no opinion.

… ]

What is interesting here is that of those who have an opinion, the majority favor the availability of the TLM by 2-1. That doesn’t mean they would go to it, but they favor the option.

Read more at wdtprs.com/blog/2009/08/recent-survey-concerning-the-tlm-2-1-of-those-with-opinions-favor-a-tlm-option/

 

[qui_est_ce]

Read more at wdtprs.com/blog/2009/08/recent-survey-concerning-the-tlm-2-1-of-those-with-opinions-favor-a-tlm-option/

I went to my first Tridentine mass in 40 years on Sunday. It was beautiful. I’m glad I went. But the mass was 2 hours long! There were a lot of small children there. I would not want to spend two hours a week at mass with small children.

I didn’t like the priest facing away from the people, and the lack of participation by the congregation. All the responses were done by the choir. I felt like an observer of something secretive. There was no Our Father, no Gloria. T

The readings were from the old missal - same ones every year, rather than the ABC cycle. There were only two readings and no responsorial psalm, I think this is a big mistake because not enough Bible gets covered in a year’s time.

I would like to see more Latin Novus Ordo masses. Novus Ordo can be very reverent especially with traditional Catholic hymns and Gregorian chant.

my :twocents:

 

[ibkc]

I went to my first Tridentine mass in 40 years on Sunday. It was beautiful. I’m glad I went. But the mass was 2 hours long! There were a lot of small children there. I would not want to spend two hours a week at mass with small children.

I didn’t like the priest facing away from the people, and the lack of participation by the congregation. All the responses were done by the choir. I felt like an observer of something secretive. There was no Our Father, no Gloria.

Yes, there are. They are just not said by the people although at the TLM I sometimes attend, the congregation says the line “sed libera nos a malo” during the Pater Noster. I think that the TLM at this parish is something called a “response mass”, if I remember correctly. We do say/sing a decent amount during the mass - not as much as in the Ordinary Form, but not nothing at all, either.

As for the length of the mass, in my experience two hours is pretty long. The readings on Sunday were quite long and the priest’s sermon was very long. Normally, regular Sunday high mass at this parish takes a little over an hour.

 

[bpbasilphx]

There were a lot of small children there. I would not want to spend two hours a week at mass with small children.

**At the parish I attend, there are about 20 toddlers and younger, so there’s a constant undercurrent of gooing, gurgling, and babbling. I love it! It’s their church, too, and they are our future!

And a usual Sunday Divine Liturgy is goiing to last the better part of 2 hours in the usual Orthodox parish.

The priest no more “faces away from the people” than the person in front of you is standing with his back to you. We’re all facing the same direction.**

 

[kwitz]

I went to my first Tridentine mass in 40 years on Sunday. It was beautiful. I’m glad I went. But the mass was 2 hours long! There were a lot of small children there. I would not want to spend two hours a week at mass with small children.

I didn’t like the priest facing away from the people, and the lack of participation by the congregation. All the responses were done by the choir. I felt like an observer of something secretive. There was no Our Father, no Gloria. T

The readings were from the old missal - same ones every year, rather than the ABC cycle. There were only two readings and no responsorial psalm, I think this is a big mistake because not enough Bible gets covered in a year’s time.

I would like to see more Latin Novus Ordo masses. Novus Ordo can be very reverent especially with traditional Catholic hymns and Gregorian chant.

my :twocents:

I bet I was at the same parish the week before for our family’s first foray into the world of the TLM.

We didn’t have a missal to follow so I know that explains a lot of what I’m going to say but we were clueless as to what was going on. I thought I at least was a bit prepared for what to expect but… I didn’t recognize a kyrie.

Actually, at one point my DS17 leaned over and asked if that was the first reading. I said I didn’t know but a few moments later we were signing ourselves on our foreheads, lips and heart for the gospel so he obviously knew more than I did.

I can’t say we “enjoyed” it but neither did we hate it. No one has the desire to go back soon but perhaps at a later time. I agree with Christine’s comment about being an observer. Yes, I understand the symbolism and meaning of the priest offering prayers for us facing East. I just prefer to participate differently.

Having said that my personal preference at this point is for the OF, I would be one that in a survey would say that I think the EF should be reasonably available to those who want it.

Kris

 

[thunderballs75]

This survey only asked about 1,000 people. That may sound like a lot to you guys, but it seems like hardly enough to generalize on the 1 billion Catholics.

 

[ibkc]

This survey only asked about 1,000 people. That may sound like a lot to you guys, but it seems like hardly enough to generalize on the 1 billion Catholics.

There’s not even 1 billion people in the United States, let alone 1 billion Catholics. This poll was of US Catholics.

But anyway: polling is more complicated than that. You can, in fact, get a good idea of what the population as a whole thinks about an issue based on the answers of a relative few, if you are careful about how you select your pool of participants, and there are other factors as well. For you to credibly dismiss this poll, you’d need to look at its methodology and explain why it doesn’t work and how it could be better.

Besides, the majority of those polled don’t even care about the issue to begin with. That actually isn’t surprising at all. What I did find interesting is that of those who do care, the vast majority are in favor of wider access to the EF.

 

[thunderballs75]

There’s not even 1 billion people in the United States, let alone 1 billion Catholics. This poll was of US Catholics.

But anyway: polling is more complicated than that. You can, in fact, get a good idea of what the population as a whole thinks about an issue based on the answers of a relative few, if you are careful about how you select your pool of participants, and there are other factors as well. For you to credibly dismiss this poll, you’d need to look at its methodology and explain why it doesn’t work and how it could be better.

Besides, the majority of those polled don’t even care about the issue to begin with. That actually isn’t surprising at all. What I did find interesting is that of those who do care, the vast majority are in favor of wider access to the EF.

Fair enough. But just FYI there are 1 billion baptized Catholics in the world (though at least half probably aren’t practicing). I thought for some reason I read somewhere that it surveyed more than Americans.