Fr. Zuhlsdorf answers the question, "Why Gregorian chant is better than 'Gather Us In' "

[Canto]

Not for everyone. This is just your personal opinion and reaction to chant, but this is not a universal reaction.QUOTE]

Pope Pius XII In Musicam Sacram noted St Augustine talking about singing the Mass…: 33. Saint Augustine, speaking of chants characterized by “beautiful voice and most apt melody,” says: “I feel that our souls are moved to the ardor of piety by the sacred words more piously and powerfully when these words are sung than when they are not sung, and that all the affections of our soul in their variety have modes of their own in song and chant by which they are stirred up by an indescribable and secret sympathy.”[17 34. It is easy to infer from what has just been said that the dignity and force of sacred music are greater the closer sacred music itself approaches to the supreme act of Christian worship, the Eucharistic sacrifice of the altar. There can be nothing more exalted or sublime than its function of accompanying with beautiful sound the voice of the priest offering up the Divine Victim, answering him joyfully with the people who are present and enhancing the whole liturgical ceremony with its noble art.

Pope Pius also stated… 43. This chant, because of the close adaptation of the melody to the sacred text, is not only most intimately conformed to the words, but also in a way interprets their force and efficacy and brings delight to the minds of the hearers. It does this by the use of musical modes that are simple and plain, but which are still composed with such sublime and holy art that they move everyone to sincere admiration and constitute an almost inexhaustible source from which musicians and composers draw new melodies.

1. It is the duty of all those to whom Christ the Lord has entrusted the task of guarding and dispensing the Church’s riches to preserve this precious treasure of Gregorian chant diligently and to impart it generously to the Christian people. Hence what Our predecessors, Saint Pius X, who is rightly called the renewer of Gregorian chant,[19] and Pius XI[20] have wisely ordained and taught, We also, in view of the outstanding qualities which genuine Gregorian chant possesses, will and prescribe that this be done. In the performance of the sacred liturgical rites this same Gregorian chant should be most widely used…

Cat;7860362:

is not about what we personally like, but what the Church says is appropriate and correct. At this time, many of the songs that some of the posters in this thread are disparaging are still allowed, thank God.

And the Church says GChant not folk/pop should have principium locum (first place) in liturgical services.

These folk/pop etc songs must be approved by the Conference of Bishops to be allowed to replace the propers.

GIRM 47 while noting the propers states "…or another song …that has a text approved by the Conference of Bishops…"

In fact, Musicam Sacram, flowing from Vat IIs liturgy document, decress that the Entrance, Offertory and Communion Chants, even the Gloria, Sanctus etc may never be sung (even in part) until the dialoge between the Priest and the people is sung (i.e. a Capella Gregorian Chant),

1. The following belong to the first degree:
   (a) In the entrance rites: the greeting of the priest together with the reply of the people; the prayer.
   (b) In the Liturgy of the Word: the acclamations at the Gospel.
   (c) In the Eucharistic Liturgy: the prayer over the offerings; the preface with its dialogue and the Sanctus; the final doxology of the Canon, the Lord’s prayer with its introduction and embolism; the Pax Domini; the prayer after the Communion; the formulas of dismissal…

These degrees are so arranged that the first may be used even by itself, but the second and third, wholly or partially, may never be used without the first. In this way the faithful will be continually led towards an ever greater participation in the singing.

 

[ProVobis]

Much of the music even currently in use in many parishes is out of copyright,

You are right but you can’t make that assumption either. How about that “Happy Birthday” song which was assumed to be out of copyright, yet the composer sued the movie industry for using it in one of the movies. Even with permission, one has to be careful.

With copyrights there are a lot of issues, as you say. When I was copyrighting my own software, I did extensive research as not to plagiarize some other piece of software (that basically did the same thing.) That was more work than actually writing the software.

There was also that little My Sweet Lord case where the judge ruled in favor of the plaintiff over 3 lousy notes so it appears that in the U.S. there are vigorously enforcing the copyright laws.

To add another dimension to possible violations, they’ve allowed midi-compatible instruments to be played in church, from piano to organ to guitars. A musician can inadvertently leave his own recording on the instrument, ready for someone else to use.

I think it’s much safer to use something that you know belongs to the Church, like the untranslated Jubilate Deo, for example.

BTW most pastors and bishops have no clue about the actual laws in effect.

That is indeed unfortunate as they are the ones who ultimately have to assume responsibility for music played and texts used during Mass and singing.

 

[jilly4ski]

The song is “How Beautiful” by Twila Paris. This song is more “Catholic” than Protestant–no problems with theology. I love this song, and I would love to hear more Mass music like this.

Are all of you honestly saying that you don’t like this music? If so, that’s OK. We’re all different. But I love it. It makes me cry.

Cat, I actually grew up in a “praise and worship” Catholic parish. There isn’t even an organ in it. So I have an affinity for “praise and worship” music, but I do not always think it is very appropriate for mass. For one thing, it makes holidays like Christmas pretty boring/non exciting.

 

[Sarabande]

Cat, yours is a position I have never seen before, especially from a musician. Have you ever tried to find the melody while listening to it and looking at the notes? This is the first piece of (Latin) chant I learned to sing. youtube.com/watch?v=CAmydVsNMqM It is the prayer Hail Holy Queen.

I think with musicians (as a trained, professional musician myself) it’s about finding “the line” in the music… any music. But I believe it can be difficult to accomplish quickly with certain music depending on the person.

I especially learned how to read the line from modern classical works which are sometimes/often times really strange and sometimes sound like there is no melody or natural rhythm. Not all classically trained singers can do that kind of music or want to. For some it’s a mental block even if they are good musicians. Some others aren’t good musicians so just can’t get it. For others it’s because they just don’t like the music and it’s sometimes a mix of not liking and thus not getting it. They don’t like it, so they subconsciously create a mental block which prevents them from understanding - no matter how much they try and want to try. It takes A LOT to overcome.

Anyway, I am fairly certain based on Cat’s posts that she is an excellent musician. Because of her background and experiences and just not a liking for chant, it may have caused a block for her to actually find that line which all musicians are taught to do. It isn’t unusual either. Just as some get that mental block with singing modern classical compositions as I described above, you can get also that block with chant - and I do know some trained singers who can’t do chant - they want to sing it either like they’re singing an opera (I am an opera singer as well, but I use a different way of singing for chant, just as I would for hymns or art songs) or like they are singing a pop song. I bring this up, Cat, because I know many singer musicians, myself included, who have had blocks at one time or another with certain kinds of music. I used to hate, absolutely hate Richard Strauss’ music. I had such a mental block for understanding his music. It just didn’t make sense to me. But as I got better with my musical training and just got older, one day I was watching “Der Rosenkavalier” and it just suddenly hit me. It overwhelmed so much that I now ball my brains out, especially whenever I hear that final trio in the opera. The counterpoint, the swelling instruments, including the voices, the text… it just engulfs me to no end. I still don’t get Wolfe, though. Maybe one day I’ll like his music, but at this point I can only appreciate his talents, but not like it. haha! My husband loves his works, on the other hand.

As musicians, we are trained to be able to find the line in any music. When I first looked at chant, I didn’t get it, especially reading the music that only had the numes. Wow! That was crazy for me. But once I kept learning, listening and singing, there is definitely a natural rhythm to the music and even a melody line. You can’t really even shake it off, once it’s in you. At the same time, I was always intrigued by chant. It’s perhaps because I grew up in a time when chant was hardly, if ever used and was constantly being told that it was old and bad. But whenever I heard it, I felt transported. Even when I chant now, I often go into a meditative trance. It happened a couple times this year when I chanted the Exsultet. A beautiful, spiritual and humbling experience for me on that level. I think that if Cat does find the line one day, she might grow to like it. BUT she might still dislike it just as some people who can sing modern classical vocal music still dislikes it.

 

[nickybr38]

I just listened to a great discussion about music in the Mass today and a few points were made that I thought were excellent.

1. The music at Mass should transcend the experience we have in our daily lives. The music should not be contemporary, instead it should be geared towards helping us pray and worship. Music that reminds us of the ordinary experiences of our daily lives is not music that helps us prepare to worship the divine (my own paraphrase of their words).
2. I guess the music at Mass MUST have words that are taken directly from Scripture, NOT paraphrased FROM scripture. I didn’t know that and I don’t have the quote from literature but I could get the podcast link to the discussion if anyone is interesting.

 

[Eugenius]

1. The music at Mass should transcend the experience we have in our daily lives. The music should not be contemporary, instead it should be geared towards helping us pray and worship. Music that reminds us of the ordinary experiences of our daily lives is not music that helps us prepare to worship the divine (my own paraphrase of their words.

This is what I have come to understand too. Our personal preferences are socially conditioned, forming a type of accidental “false self.” I try to leave all that at the door when I go to mass. Even though I don’t understand everything in Latin (and we sing a lot of GC in English) I actually feel more engaged and connected when the mass feels foreign. Part of the appeal of GC is that it is not local, it spans time and locale, it is universal, i.e., catholic. I realize that I am partaking in something larger than myself and so I reach out and try to understand it. What are these words saying? Where did they come from? Why are we singing them during this part of the mass?

I would like to hear more about this presentation!

 

[bkovacs]

Palistrina is probably rolling in his grave. Thanks to the contemporary post Vatican 2 music that is dominant today in our parishes. All of his great works composed for the liturgy down the drain. Only reserved for CD’s and concerts. With certain exceptions (cough Extrordinary For…m). He He !!!

 

[nickybr38]

This is what I have come to understand too. Our personal preferences are socially conditioned, forming a type of accidental “false self.” I try to leave all that at the door when I go to mass. Even though I don’t understand everything in Latin (and we sing a lot of GC in English) I actually feel more engaged and connected when the mass feels foreign. Part of the appeal of GC is that it is not local, it spans time and locale, it is universal, i.e., catholic. I realize that I am partaking in something larger than myself and so I reach out and try to understand it. What are these words saying? Where did they come from? Why are we singing them during this part of the mass?

I would like to hear more about this presentation!

You can hear an interesting discussion about music in the mass here: ipadre.net/2011/01/ipadre-216-sacred-music/ The ipadre channel has some other great podcasts as well as some chant lessons! AND it’s all free.

 

[Sarabande]

Palistrina is probably rolling in his grave. Thanks to the contemporary post Vatican 2 music that is dominant today in our parishes. All of his great works composed for the liturgy down the drain. Only reserved for CD’s and concerts. With certain exceptions (cough Extrordinary For…m). He He !!!

Fortunately, there are still some Catholic churches who celebrate the OF only which are doing his music. My former parish, for instance. We did it in my choir almost every week - all volunteer choir, too. That said, we had an extraordinary music director. I don’t know what they’ve been doing, though, since he left last year. It could have gone down the drain for all I know.

 

[InquisitorMax]

I’d put it this way:

What you hear at your local N.O. is often the personal preference of the locals.
Chant is the preference of the Roman Catholic Church.

The less you do, the less you want to do.