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billcu1
Guest
My Parish’s Ast. pastor says he will teach me Franciscan contemplative prayer. Would this enable the viewing of the uncreated light talked about in Catholicism?
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4love2God
Guest
billcu1 said** : The “Franciscan contemplative prayer. Would this enable the viewing of the uncreated Light talked about in Catholicism?” **
It might, YES.
FAITH is what moves Mountains, and creates the “uncreated Light.”
A sick woman KNEW that IF she touched Jesus’ Cloak, that she would be Healed.
Since her Faith was solid, she WAS Healed at that very moment (and, Jesus said, “Your Faith has healed you.”).
This unrefined Faith is NOT for the feint of Heart.
All of the Sacred Mysteries are all the same.
If your Faith is strong when you point your Focus onto a Mystery, it CAN (and frequently DOES) come into View, and you are able to see that Mystery with New Eyes … So, the Mystery reveals itself to you , AND in the process, it Gives you a New Heart, improved with that BIG Jolt of Faith … that this Mystery has just Opened into View, for you.
The un-Created Light is one of these Wonderful Mysteries.
So, use the Franciscan Contemplative Prayer.
Open up your Heart to LIVE inside of that Prayer.
It will provide the Cocoon to protect you from the World stealing your Focus away.
Re-double that Heart opening, and ALLOW your Heart to swallow the un-Created Light whole (GULP).
As this Happens, the Universe shirfs a little . . . AND, you now know a new Thing.
Then, with our other Sacred Mysteries … Open WIDE, and find more Friends . . . Powerful Friends.
It might, YES.
FAITH is what moves Mountains, and creates the “uncreated Light.”
A sick woman KNEW that IF she touched Jesus’ Cloak, that she would be Healed.
Since her Faith was solid, she WAS Healed at that very moment (and, Jesus said, “Your Faith has healed you.”).
This unrefined Faith is NOT for the feint of Heart.
All of the Sacred Mysteries are all the same.
If your Faith is strong when you point your Focus onto a Mystery, it CAN (and frequently DOES) come into View, and you are able to see that Mystery with New Eyes … So, the Mystery reveals itself to you , AND in the process, it Gives you a New Heart, improved with that BIG Jolt of Faith … that this Mystery has just Opened into View, for you.
The un-Created Light is one of these Wonderful Mysteries.
So, use the Franciscan Contemplative Prayer.
Open up your Heart to LIVE inside of that Prayer.
It will provide the Cocoon to protect you from the World stealing your Focus away.
Re-double that Heart opening, and ALLOW your Heart to swallow the un-Created Light whole (GULP).
As this Happens, the Universe shirfs a little . . . AND, you now know a new Thing.
Then, with our other Sacred Mysteries … Open WIDE, and find more Friends . . . Powerful Friends.
J
J_Peterson
Guest
If your goal is to see God you will most likely walk away disappointed. There is no method for achieving contemplation/union w/ God. A person can only be brought there by God through no power of their own. Also the first step towards union (after conversion) is purgation, which many of us never quite get past. The journey is worth the effort though as it will lead to God, just according to His will not yours.
Just pray and expect nothing and you will receive something but the something you recieve may not be what you want but it will be what you need.
Just pray and expect nothing and you will receive something but the something you recieve may not be what you want but it will be what you need.
4
4love2God
Guest
J Peterson sounds like a person who either
This is NOT True.
This is REALLY Not True.
I, personally, have practiced Contemplation for more than a Dozen years.
I know several OTHER Fellow Contemplatives who have practiced the Method of Contemplation, and have Deeply Contemplated God … and Jesus Christ … and the Holy Spirit … and other Sacred Mysteries.
This Contemplative State-of-Mind has the POWER to meet God (almost Face-to-Face) in a deeply-Intimate way.
And, this is simply what Contemplative Prayer can bring to that person.
And THEN, some of the advanced Contemplatives, DO come to meet God Face-to-Face, but this is not much different than the USUAL Contemplative encounter with God (except the Volume of the Encounter).
And, he claims** : “A person can only be brought there by God, through no power of their own.”**
This is portraying Contemplative Prayer (and Contemplation itself) as a THING that just Happens when God is making it Happen, and the Contemplater is just a Witness to God’s actions.
Initially, this is WRONG, because if a person is NOT attempting to Contemplate … then God isn’t gonna SEND him there.
Second, there are 1000s and 1000s of Mystics who disagree with this Dismissive attack.
Any HELP by God is appreciated, BUT each Person, himself, teaches himself how to attain the mental state of Contemplation.
Contemplation is a form of Deep Focus (sort of, a form of Meditation, but different in some ways).
And mostly, Contemplation is a State-of-Mind, that ignores almost all of the rest of the World, and is allowed to Focus most of its Attention onto a single subject.
This is a Skill that MOST Spiritual people can Learn to do.
And, that Person is the one who THEN turns the POWER of his Spotlight of FOCUS onto God, to GET CLOSE to God (feel God’s close Presence, see the enormity of Infinity, encounter the boundless Love of Jesus Christ, and 10,000 other Near intersections with God).
If that person happens to be LUCKY during that day of Contemplation, then he WILL meet God Face-to-Face … "Your Faith has Healed you."
Jesus said this to a person who got her OWN Healing, because she believed that touching Jesus’ Cloak would Heal her.
This is the same Concept. The Contemplater himself (by HIS OWN Faith) creates the ability to come in Direct Contact with the Godhead.
And the PP claims** : “Also the first step towards union [with God] (after conversion) is Purgation, which many of us never quite get past.”**
And, THIS is also NOT True.
A child-like Contemplater can by-pass all of those silly Obstacles along the Way, and jump STRAIGHT into deep Contemplative encounter with his friend, Jesus Christ.
One of the Beatitudes promises : "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God."
And, many others only need to Purge a little bit of their “darkness” … and then DEEPLY come into Union with the Godhead.
Purgation is, therefore, NOT a requirement for a POWERFUL Meeting with Jesus Christ.
And, Complete Purgation (as the OP states) is ABSOLUTELY not needed.
Because VERY FEW people have fully Purged themselves (and, even then, most of THEM later became Canonized Saints of the Catholic Church).
And, finally, the PP said** :
A person can JUST Pray and expect nothing to happen.
After all, this is what a Billion people do each Day.
And, Prayer WILL give you something (Merit, Love for God, maybe it will even Come True).
Of course #4 is True … almost nobody receives everything they they want to Happen.
But, #5 is Bogus.
This is saying that EVERYTHING that happens in the Life of a person who Prays is just WHAT HE NEEDS.
This is ONLY True in the most Abstract Way … e.g., Everything is in God’s Plan.
Which is (mostly) Bogus … and certain is BOGUS in the terms of Contemplative Prayer.
- Tried and Tried to learn how to Contemplate God… but could NOT do it; or
- Never attempted to learn Contemplation, and is just Pooh-Poohing it out of his ignorance.
I hardly know where to begin, in responding to the MANY lies he has said.
This is NOT True.
This is REALLY Not True.
I, personally, have practiced Contemplation for more than a Dozen years.
I know several OTHER Fellow Contemplatives who have practiced the Method of Contemplation, and have Deeply Contemplated God … and Jesus Christ … and the Holy Spirit … and other Sacred Mysteries.
This Contemplative State-of-Mind has the POWER to meet God (almost Face-to-Face) in a deeply-Intimate way.
And, this is simply what Contemplative Prayer can bring to that person.
And THEN, some of the advanced Contemplatives, DO come to meet God Face-to-Face, but this is not much different than the USUAL Contemplative encounter with God (except the Volume of the Encounter).
And, he claims** : “A person can only be brought there by God, through no power of their own.”**
This is portraying Contemplative Prayer (and Contemplation itself) as a THING that just Happens when God is making it Happen, and the Contemplater is just a Witness to God’s actions.
Initially, this is WRONG, because if a person is NOT attempting to Contemplate … then God isn’t gonna SEND him there.
Second, there are 1000s and 1000s of Mystics who disagree with this Dismissive attack.
Any HELP by God is appreciated, BUT each Person, himself, teaches himself how to attain the mental state of Contemplation.
Contemplation is a form of Deep Focus (sort of, a form of Meditation, but different in some ways).
And mostly, Contemplation is a State-of-Mind, that ignores almost all of the rest of the World, and is allowed to Focus most of its Attention onto a single subject.
This is a Skill that MOST Spiritual people can Learn to do.
And, that Person is the one who THEN turns the POWER of his Spotlight of FOCUS onto God, to GET CLOSE to God (feel God’s close Presence, see the enormity of Infinity, encounter the boundless Love of Jesus Christ, and 10,000 other Near intersections with God).
If that person happens to be LUCKY during that day of Contemplation, then he WILL meet God Face-to-Face … "Your Faith has Healed you."
Jesus said this to a person who got her OWN Healing, because she believed that touching Jesus’ Cloak would Heal her.
This is the same Concept. The Contemplater himself (by HIS OWN Faith) creates the ability to come in Direct Contact with the Godhead.
And the PP claims** : “Also the first step towards union [with God] (after conversion) is Purgation, which many of us never quite get past.”**
And, THIS is also NOT True.
A child-like Contemplater can by-pass all of those silly Obstacles along the Way, and jump STRAIGHT into deep Contemplative encounter with his friend, Jesus Christ.
One of the Beatitudes promises : "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God."
And, many others only need to Purge a little bit of their “darkness” … and then DEEPLY come into Union with the Godhead.
Purgation is, therefore, NOT a requirement for a POWERFUL Meeting with Jesus Christ.
And, Complete Purgation (as the OP states) is ABSOLUTELY not needed.
Because VERY FEW people have fully Purged themselves (and, even then, most of THEM later became Canonized Saints of the Catholic Church).
And, finally, the PP said** :
- "Just pray, and
- expect nothing, and
- you will receive something, but
- the something you receive may not be what you want, but
- it will be what you need."**
A person can JUST Pray and expect nothing to happen.
After all, this is what a Billion people do each Day.
And, Prayer WILL give you something (Merit, Love for God, maybe it will even Come True).
Of course #4 is True … almost nobody receives everything they they want to Happen.
But, #5 is Bogus.
This is saying that EVERYTHING that happens in the Life of a person who Prays is just WHAT HE NEEDS.
This is ONLY True in the most Abstract Way … e.g., Everything is in God’s Plan.
Which is (mostly) Bogus … and certain is BOGUS in the terms of Contemplative Prayer.
J
J_Peterson
Guest
I’m not going to go through your post point by point right now. I will say it comes off as prideful and I felt a little put off by your opening statement. Is this how a contemplative speaks to others?J Peterson sounds like a person who either
- Tried and Tried to learn how to Contemplate God… but could NOT do it; or
- Never attempted to learn Contemplation, and is just Pooh-Poohing it out of his ignorance.
I hardly know where to begin, in responding to the MANY lies he has said.
4
4love2God
Guest
J Peterson does NOT respond to my Reply, instead … : "I’m not going to go through your post point by point right now.
I will say it comes off as prideful, and I felt a little put off by your opening statement.
Is this how a contemplative speaks to others?"
Hmm, well let’s look at YOUR Opening Statement to me : "If your goal is to see God, you will most likely walk away disappointed. There is no method for achieving contemplation/union w/ God."
Is THIS how a non-Jerk speaks to someone who has bared his Spiritual Soul to you?
Because you are LYING … and if you assume that LYING is how God wants you to ACT, then so be it.
OK, let’s see what J Peterson said here :
AGAIN, you provide NO Context for your statement.
So, by NOT explaining WHAT you are talking about, you are simply trying to Defame me in general.
So, don’t be shy.
I will say it comes off as prideful, and I felt a little put off by your opening statement.
Is this how a contemplative speaks to others?"
Hmm, well let’s look at YOUR Opening Statement to me : "If your goal is to see God, you will most likely walk away disappointed. There is no method for achieving contemplation/union w/ God."
Is THIS how a non-Jerk speaks to someone who has bared his Spiritual Soul to you?
Because you are LYING … and if you assume that LYING is how God wants you to ACT, then so be it.
OK, let’s see what J Peterson said here :
- "I’m not going to go through your post point by point right now."
YES, I see . . . IS this because you don’t know what you are talking about? - "I will say it comes off as prideful."
Uh HUH. Well, since you do NOT say what part of my Post you are Responding to, this is NOT helpful, nor is it Fair to just throw out there.
But, I figured that you were not being Fair anyway.
AGAIN, you provide NO Context for your statement.
So, by NOT explaining WHAT you are talking about, you are simply trying to Defame me in general.
- And finally, he throws out another “Beauty” : "Is this how a contemplative speaks to others?"
Well, the Obvious Answer is YES … this is EXACTLY how I speak to you.
When a person makes up a Bunch of Lies, and throws them at me, I feel PERFECTLY Honorable to point that out to that particluar Liar.
After all, I didn’t call you a Child Molester, or a Rapist, I simply said that I think you Responded for one of 2 Reasons.
IF you don’t like it (and you NEVER said you did not like me to say that about you), then tell me that you don’t like it.
Your INDIRECTNESS is overwhelming (and seems to be used to say Nasty things to me, without actually saying Nasty things to me).
So, don’t be shy.
J
J_Peterson
Guest
I’m really not sure what I’ve said that drew such a strong response. Maybe it was my tone or a misunderstanding. I’ll restate it more explicitly. If I’m in error then I’m in error but I’m not seeing it.
I believe it is irresponsible to encourage others to pursue mystical experiences. We are to seek Christ not experiences. Actually believing that someone can cause a mystical experience through their own power will either lead to discouragement or delusion. I was encouraging prayer without expectations as I believe that prayer will lead us to where God wants us to be. This isn’t a controversial opinion.
Purgation usually follows conversion because you sins will begin to stand out in contrast against your new awareness of the Perfect God. In a very gradual way, this has been my experience. This stage is difficult for most of us and probably won’t be completed until after death in Purgatory. Both conversion and purgation are gifts from God. Of course there’s nothing preventing Him from giving the gift of Union with Him right in the beginning but, from my understanding, that’s not typical. This is also not a controversial belief.
We must always try to remember that we are nothing and owe everything to God. We pray and God hears. We have no say in what the response will be or if there will even be a response that we can see, it’s all up to God.
I don’t see how any of this is wrong or a lie so I can only assume it was more about the terminology I used and my tone.
I believe it is irresponsible to encourage others to pursue mystical experiences. We are to seek Christ not experiences. Actually believing that someone can cause a mystical experience through their own power will either lead to discouragement or delusion. I was encouraging prayer without expectations as I believe that prayer will lead us to where God wants us to be. This isn’t a controversial opinion.
Purgation usually follows conversion because you sins will begin to stand out in contrast against your new awareness of the Perfect God. In a very gradual way, this has been my experience. This stage is difficult for most of us and probably won’t be completed until after death in Purgatory. Both conversion and purgation are gifts from God. Of course there’s nothing preventing Him from giving the gift of Union with Him right in the beginning but, from my understanding, that’s not typical. This is also not a controversial belief.
We must always try to remember that we are nothing and owe everything to God. We pray and God hears. We have no say in what the response will be or if there will even be a response that we can see, it’s all up to God.
I don’t see how any of this is wrong or a lie so I can only assume it was more about the terminology I used and my tone.
4
4love2God
Guest
J Peterson actually says something real** : “I’m really not sure what I’ve said that drew such a strong response. Maybe it was my tone or a misunderstanding.”**
Well, I cannot see why your First Post here was such a "strong response", either.
And, you said "I believe it is irresponsible to encourage others to pursue mystical experiences.
We are to seek Christ not experiences."
OK, where did you hear that from?
Because that is the EXACT Opposite of what many Popes have said.
And, certainly against what Contemplative Orders of Religious say.
And, besides that, I DID talk about the MAIN Object of Contemplation, which is to Meet God:
"I, personally, have practiced Contemplation for more than a Dozen years.
I know several OTHER Fellow Contemplatives who have practiced the Method of Contemplation, and have Deeply Contemplated God … and Jesus Christ … and the Holy Spirit … and other Sacred Mysteries.
This Contemplative State-of-Mind has the POWER to meet God (almost Face-to-Face) in a deeply-Intimate way."
As you can plainly read, I speak about Contemplating God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
So, why are you telling me, " We are to seek Christ not experiences" … when I said that?
And, I said : "And, that Person is the one who THEN turns the POWER of his Spotlight of FOCUS onto God, to GET CLOSE to God (feel God’s close Presence, see the enormity of Infinity, encounter the boundless Love of Jesus Christ, and 10,000 other Near intersections with God)."
This, also, speaks about having a mystical Meeting with Jesus Christ.
And, you said : "I was encouraging prayer without expectations as I believe that prayer will lead us to where God wants us to be. This isn’t a controversial opinion."
This is ALSO the complete OPPOSITE of what many Popes have Taught over the Centuries.
Popes say that we should have a Strong expectation for our Prayer to be Answered.
So, I do NOT agree with your statement** : “This isn’t a controversial opinion.”** It IS to the Pope.
I, also, believe that when I Pray, that I should put a lot of my Spiritual Energy into that Prayer, so that God will hear it (and maybe grant it).
I guess it can depend on what a particular person prays for.
I mean, praying to HIT the Lottery, or that your Enemies will get Cancer, are NOT the Best subjects.
And, you said "Both conversion and purgation are gifts from God."
I do not agree that Purgation is a gift from God.
Purgation is me examining my Attitudes and Past Behaviors, and attempting to Change certain Attitudes … and to resolve to NOT repeat some of my Past Behaviors.
It is MY Work that Purges me.
It is NOT just a gift from God, or else, I could do NOTHING, and God will be Purging my defects in the Background.
So, I do not understand how you can STEAL Away all of my efforts to Purge, by handing it off to God.
What is the Value of Purgation, if God does it all, and I just sit there and accept it?
And, you said ** “Of course there’s nothing preventing Him from giving the gift of Union with Him right in the beginning
but, from my understanding, that’s not typical.
This is also not a controversial belief.”**
If it is POSSIBLE for a person that God is “giving the gift of Union with Him” … then, it would better for you to NOT Pooh-Pooh the experience.
And, how you define the word “Typical” can mean 80% of the time (or, 1% of the time).
And, again, .you claim that "from my understanding, that’s not typical."
Please Cite your Source for thinking that this is Rare.
I ask this question, because I have statistics about this, and they Contradict you (unless your percentage is Higher than it seems to be).
And, "We must always try to remember that we are nothing and owe everything to God."
And, where did you dig THIS ONE up? … that people are NOTHING?
Us people are the ONLY things that God gave Souls to, and God is offering to allow those Souls to live in Heaven for all Eternity.
If we are Truly NOTHING, then God has nothing to Hope for from Humankind.
And, "We pray and God hears. We have no say in what the response will be, or if there will even be a response that we can see, it’s all up to God."
Finally a statement that is (arguably) True.
There is some room in there for disagreement, but that is a Popular saying.
And, finally "I don’t see how any of this is wrong or a lie, so I can only assume it was more about the terminology I used and my tone."
Please do NOT assume that.
I think that I was pretty-darn Clear in what I said to you.
I pointed out MOST of the LIES you told, and explained why they were Lies.
You STILL have not responded to the LIES I pointed out, so I guess you can remain confused about it, if you like.
Well, I cannot see why your First Post here was such a "strong response", either.
In it, you proceeded to say that I was Lying. I mentioned this to you before.
You said :** “If your goal is to see God, you will most likely walk away disappointed. There is no method for achieving contemplation/union w/ God.”**
To which I responded to you*** :"Is THIS how a non-Jerk speaks to someone who has bared his Spiritual Soul to you?
Because you are LYING … and if you assume that LYING is how God wants you to ACT, then so be it.***
And, you said "I believe it is irresponsible to encourage others to pursue mystical experiences.We are to seek Christ not experiences."
OK, where did you hear that from?
Because that is the EXACT Opposite of what many Popes have said.
And, certainly against what Contemplative Orders of Religious say.
And, besides that, I DID talk about the MAIN Object of Contemplation, which is to Meet God:
"I, personally, have practiced Contemplation for more than a Dozen years.
I know several OTHER Fellow Contemplatives who have practiced the Method of Contemplation, and have Deeply Contemplated God … and Jesus Christ … and the Holy Spirit … and other Sacred Mysteries.
This Contemplative State-of-Mind has the POWER to meet God (almost Face-to-Face) in a deeply-Intimate way."
As you can plainly read, I speak about Contemplating God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
So, why are you telling me, " We are to seek Christ not experiences" … when I said that?
And, I said : "And, that Person is the one who THEN turns the POWER of his Spotlight of FOCUS onto God, to GET CLOSE to God (feel God’s close Presence, see the enormity of Infinity, encounter the boundless Love of Jesus Christ, and 10,000 other Near intersections with God)."
This, also, speaks about having a mystical Meeting with Jesus Christ.
And, you said : "I was encouraging prayer without expectations as I believe that prayer will lead us to where God wants us to be. This isn’t a controversial opinion."
This is ALSO the complete OPPOSITE of what many Popes have Taught over the Centuries.
Popes say that we should have a Strong expectation for our Prayer to be Answered.
So, I do NOT agree with your statement** : “This isn’t a controversial opinion.”** It IS to the Pope.
I, also, believe that when I Pray, that I should put a lot of my Spiritual Energy into that Prayer, so that God will hear it (and maybe grant it).
I guess it can depend on what a particular person prays for.
I mean, praying to HIT the Lottery, or that your Enemies will get Cancer, are NOT the Best subjects.
And, you said "Both conversion and purgation are gifts from God."
I do not agree that Purgation is a gift from God.
Purgation is me examining my Attitudes and Past Behaviors, and attempting to Change certain Attitudes … and to resolve to NOT repeat some of my Past Behaviors.
It is MY Work that Purges me.
It is NOT just a gift from God, or else, I could do NOTHING, and God will be Purging my defects in the Background.
So, I do not understand how you can STEAL Away all of my efforts to Purge, by handing it off to God.
What is the Value of Purgation, if God does it all, and I just sit there and accept it?
And, you said ** “Of course there’s nothing preventing Him from giving the gift of Union with Him right in the beginning
but, from my understanding, that’s not typical.
This is also not a controversial belief.”**
If it is POSSIBLE for a person that God is “giving the gift of Union with Him” … then, it would better for you to NOT Pooh-Pooh the experience.
And, how you define the word “Typical” can mean 80% of the time (or, 1% of the time).
And, again, .you claim that "from my understanding, that’s not typical."
Please Cite your Source for thinking that this is Rare.
I ask this question, because I have statistics about this, and they Contradict you (unless your percentage is Higher than it seems to be).
And, "We must always try to remember that we are nothing and owe everything to God."
And, where did you dig THIS ONE up? … that people are NOTHING?
Us people are the ONLY things that God gave Souls to, and God is offering to allow those Souls to live in Heaven for all Eternity.
If we are Truly NOTHING, then God has nothing to Hope for from Humankind.
And, "We pray and God hears. We have no say in what the response will be, or if there will even be a response that we can see, it’s all up to God."
Finally a statement that is (arguably) True.
There is some room in there for disagreement, but that is a Popular saying.
And, finally "I don’t see how any of this is wrong or a lie, so I can only assume it was more about the terminology I used and my tone."
Please do NOT assume that.
I think that I was pretty-darn Clear in what I said to you.
I pointed out MOST of the LIES you told, and explained why they were Lies.
You STILL have not responded to the LIES I pointed out, so I guess you can remain confused about it, if you like.
J
J_Peterson
Guest
Please stop accusing me of lying. Everything I’ve said echos what I’ve read by the mystics and about mysticism. These are my firmly held beliefs and they are in line with Catholic teaching. A disagreement doesn’t mean that the other person is lying. Frankly I find your style to be a bit on the agressive side and I’m not interested in arguing. If my post felt like it was directed at you personally I appologize, that wasn’t my intention.
What exactly is the method and how successful is it in generating mystical experiences? If it exists, I’m surprised it escaped everybody’s notice. Who is the author of this method?
My advice to the original poster stands, pray and pray some more. Try and let God be in charge though.
What exactly is the method and how successful is it in generating mystical experiences? If it exists, I’m surprised it escaped everybody’s notice. Who is the author of this method?
My advice to the original poster stands, pray and pray some more. Try and let God be in charge though.
4
4love2God
Guest
J Peterson said : "Please stop accusing me of lying.
Everything I’ve said echos what I’ve read by the mystics and about mysticism."
Is that a True Statement?
Well, please give the Title (or Author) of 2 or 3 of these Books you have read about having a Mystical Union with God.
I am Highly interested in reading what you have read.
I LOVE to read BOTH Sides of an Issue.
**I thank you **NOW, in advance, for telling me those Titles or Authors.
This will be a BIG part of my after-Easter reading.
**These are my firmly held beliefs and they are in line with Catholic teaching. **
This is NOT True, but I will just Let Go of that, and move on.
A disagreement doesn’t mean that the other person is lying.
This is Absolutely TRUE.
If this was just a disagreement about your Opinion, I would not have used the term Liar.
It was only that your Opinion is in COMPLETE Opposition of what our Popes have taught.
And, being that kind of a disagreement, I thought you were in Rebellion with our Church Teachings.
So, if you don’t like the TERM Liar, I will just say that you and the Pope have a WIDE Gap between your pronouncements.
I hope that makes you feel better.
Frankly I find your style to be a bit on the aggressive side, and I’m not interested in arguing.
Boy, do I know how you FEEL about this.
I think you are acting amazingly Aggressive … as well as working to Destroy the Faith of Contemplative Religious and Contemplative Laity.
And, I TOO, am not interested in Arguing.
That is why I asked you for Specifics about your seemingly False Opinions.
But, you have decided to NOT Answer the BIG Questions.
So, I guess that this Exchange is NOT going to prove Fruitful.
And, finally "**If my post felt like it was directed at you personally I apologize, that wasn’t my intention. **
OK.
I actually did NOT think you directed your Post at me.
If I had, I would have just Laughed about it, and would NOT have bothered to Post any reply.
After all, I already have had numerous almost-Meetings Face-to-Face with my Lord and Savior, Jesus of Nazareth.
So, I KNEW that all the things you said were not True, and were actually False.
My Policy : People are allowed to be just as Ignorant as they want to be.
Instead, I view your Post as an ATTACK against ANY person who would be Stupid-enough to attempt to Practice the Method of Contemplation, looking for a Close-Encounter with Jesus Christ.
So, I felt like a Mother, who saw someone attacking her Son.
Everything I’ve said echos what I’ve read by the mystics and about mysticism."
Is that a True Statement?
Well, please give the Title (or Author) of 2 or 3 of these Books you have read about having a Mystical Union with God.
I am Highly interested in reading what you have read.
I LOVE to read BOTH Sides of an Issue.
**I thank you **NOW, in advance, for telling me those Titles or Authors.
This will be a BIG part of my after-Easter reading.
**These are my firmly held beliefs and they are in line with Catholic teaching. **
This is NOT True, but I will just Let Go of that, and move on.
A disagreement doesn’t mean that the other person is lying.
This is Absolutely TRUE.
If this was just a disagreement about your Opinion, I would not have used the term Liar.
It was only that your Opinion is in COMPLETE Opposition of what our Popes have taught.
And, being that kind of a disagreement, I thought you were in Rebellion with our Church Teachings.
So, if you don’t like the TERM Liar, I will just say that you and the Pope have a WIDE Gap between your pronouncements.
I hope that makes you feel better.
Frankly I find your style to be a bit on the aggressive side, and I’m not interested in arguing.
Boy, do I know how you FEEL about this.
I think you are acting amazingly Aggressive … as well as working to Destroy the Faith of Contemplative Religious and Contemplative Laity.
And, I TOO, am not interested in Arguing.
That is why I asked you for Specifics about your seemingly False Opinions.
But, you have decided to NOT Answer the BIG Questions.
So, I guess that this Exchange is NOT going to prove Fruitful.
And, finally "**If my post felt like it was directed at you personally I apologize, that wasn’t my intention. **
OK.
I actually did NOT think you directed your Post at me.
If I had, I would have just Laughed about it, and would NOT have bothered to Post any reply.
After all, I already have had numerous almost-Meetings Face-to-Face with my Lord and Savior, Jesus of Nazareth.
So, I KNEW that all the things you said were not True, and were actually False.
My Policy : People are allowed to be just as Ignorant as they want to be.
Instead, I view your Post as an ATTACK against ANY person who would be Stupid-enough to attempt to Practice the Method of Contemplation, looking for a Close-Encounter with Jesus Christ.
So, I felt like a Mother, who saw someone attacking her Son.
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
Wow, how about we speak in a more contemplative mode.
There are many methods of prayer if we want to call them methods. When we let ourselves become availible to God we can grow in our awareness of the Holy Spirit within us and all that God wishes to bestow.
I am curious though about this “Franciscan contemplative prayer”. Are we talking about the method of St Bonaventure in the* Itinerarium* or are we talking about a Bible based reflection on the life of Christ that Francis often engaged in?
There are many methods of prayer if we want to call them methods. When we let ourselves become availible to God we can grow in our awareness of the Holy Spirit within us and all that God wishes to bestow.
I am curious though about this “Franciscan contemplative prayer”. Are we talking about the method of St Bonaventure in the* Itinerarium* or are we talking about a Bible based reflection on the life of Christ that Francis often engaged in?
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
Purgation certainly involves a resolve, but the desire to resolve and the fortitude to resolve and be successful with it is not entirely our own doing. It comes from God. The value in purgation is the purification it results in. the closer to God we get the more humble we become and realize how helpless we are without God’s help. If you think it is you who does it on your own there is danger of spiritual pride.And, you said "Both conversion and purgation are gifts from God."
I do not agree that Purgation is a gift from God.
Purgation is me examining my Attitudes and Past Behaviors, and attempting to Change certain Attitudes … and to resolve to NOT repeat some of my Past Behaviors.
It is MY Work that Purges me.
It is NOT just a gift from God, or else, I could do NOTHING, and God will be Purging my defects in the Background.
So, I do not understand how you can STEAL Away all of my efforts to Purge, by handing it off to God.
What is the Value of Purgation, if God does it all, and I just sit there and accept it?
M
Michael_Mayo
Guest
On Prayer from the Catechism.
What we can do:
2710 The choice of the time and duration of the prayer arises from a determined will, revealing the secrets of the heart. One does not undertake contemplative prayer only when one has the time: one makes time for the Lord, with the firm determination not to give up, no matter what trials and dryness one may encounter. One cannot always meditate, but one can always enter into inner prayer, independently of the conditions of health, work, or emotional state. the heart is the place of this quest and encounter, in poverty and in faith.
What God does:
2713 Contemplative prayer is the simplest expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gift, a grace; it can be accepted only in humility and poverty. Contemplative prayer is a covenant relationship established by God within our hearts.9 Contemplative prayer is a communion in which the Holy Trinity conforms man, the image of God, “to his likeness.”
What we can do:
2710 The choice of the time and duration of the prayer arises from a determined will, revealing the secrets of the heart. One does not undertake contemplative prayer only when one has the time: one makes time for the Lord, with the firm determination not to give up, no matter what trials and dryness one may encounter. One cannot always meditate, but one can always enter into inner prayer, independently of the conditions of health, work, or emotional state. the heart is the place of this quest and encounter, in poverty and in faith.
What God does:
2713 Contemplative prayer is the simplest expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gift, a grace; it can be accepted only in humility and poverty. Contemplative prayer is a covenant relationship established by God within our hearts.9 Contemplative prayer is a communion in which the Holy Trinity conforms man, the image of God, “to his likeness.”
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