Free Will/Praying?

[C4THOLIC]

My question is why should we pray if God already has a plan for us?
Also there are free will questions below there

If someone prayed for someone not to die wouldn’t the prayer be irrelevent cause God already has a plan, set , and time for him to pass? Would he change his plans so the prayer would be answerd? And let’s say he did answer it, wouldn’t he know that when he created us so that would be planned?Also wouldn’t that affect free will cause we choose what we want for our lives so God knows whats going to happen to us when he created us or does his plan for us change as we live?

 

[Usagi]

Indeed, our prayers do not change God’s mind … but precisely because He is aware of all future events from eternity, He can take our prayers into account in making the plan. But yes, more than making God do something differently, prayer teaches us to say “Thy will be done,” because not every prayer is answered as we would wish.

This was hard for me to grasp for many years as well, but strictly speaking God’s knowledge of the future is not the same as determining the future. Yes, He knows from all eternity everything that you or I will do and that will happen to us — but we still choose freely. Ultimately, even in a free choice, we can only choose one out of a set of mutually exclusive alternatives, and God knows which we do choose (because nothing is “future” or “past” to Him), but He does not make us choose that.

 

[Robert1111]

God knows which we do choose (because nothing is “future” or “past” to Him), but He does not make us choose that.

It’s a bit more complicated. For example, if you have a sin that you like too much to commit to realistically make a true purpose of amendment, because your will is very much attracted by it, you can pray God that he makes you not want to commit that sin again. In other words, you don’t have the will yet but you do have the willingness to will, which in this case shows that you are somehow open to God’s action. And in this case you can be assured that God will make you repent of that sin.

But if you don’t even have the willingness to will that which is good well, that’s a problem.

The point i was making is that God influences our own free will, but only if we are willing to allow him to. Prayer is a sign that we are willing.

 

[John_Martin]

In old war movies 2 people had to turn individual keys to launch a missile.

They both know the same thing at the same time and turn the keys together.
God knows every answered prayer always in eternity not just when it happens.

But he knows himself as one of the key turners, always knows this, and he knows a person on Earth as the other key turner, such as Moses talking to pharaoh and suddenly the people are delivered out of Egypt - God knew eternally that when Moses talked to Pharaoh, Pharaoh would release the people, and when Moses knew what God knew and did finally speak to Pharaoh in time, this temporal moment was when the people were released from Egypt.

We are turning one key when we pray in obedience to God’s command to pray to him just as Moses obeyed God and went to pharaoh.
God always works with ‘two key’ causation never alone because he is outside of time and he works with us to work in time so that we know temporarily what he knows eternally and then it is done. The word “cooperation” (Co-Operation) is not a coincidence in Catholic Theology and Doctrine.

John Martin

 

[STT]

My question is why should we pray if God already has a plan for us?

That is a relevant and interesting question.

Also there are free will questions below there

If someone prayed for someone not to die wouldn’t the prayer be irrelevent cause God already has a plan, set , and time for him to pass? Would he change his plans so the prayer would be answerd? And let’s say he did answer it, wouldn’t he know that when he created us so that would be planned?Also wouldn’t that affect free will cause we choose what we want for our lives so God knows whats going to happen to us when he created us or does his plan for us change as we live?

God knows the future eternally not temporarily. You think that God knew the fate of individuals in the past and then create them. This is temporal framework. God’s foreknowledge is however eternal meaning that all moments are present to Him at His eternal now, one instant.

 

[Francis]

My question is why should we pray if God already has a plan for us?

because when we pray, it will be more of less on our favor as an example king Ahyaz life was extended 15 years longer,

Isaiah 38:7 “This is the sign to you from the Lord, that the Lord will do this thing that he has promised: 8 Behold, I will make the shadow cast by the declining sun on the dial of Ahaz turn back ten steps.” So the sun turned back on the dial the ten steps by which it had declined.9 A writing of Hezeki′ah king of Judah, after he had been sick and had recovered from his sickness:

2 Kings 20:8-11 And Hezeki′ah said to Isaiah, “What shall be the sign that the Lord will heal me, and that I shall go up to the house of the Lord on the third day?” 9 And Isaiah said, “This is the sign to you from the Lord, that the Lord will do the thing that he has promised: shall the shadow go forward ten steps, or go back ten steps?” 10 And Hezeki′ah answered, “It is an easy thing for the shadow to lengthen ten steps; rather let the shadow go back ten steps.” 11 And Isaiah the prophet cried to the Lord; and he brought the shadow back ten steps, by which the sun had declined on the dial of Ahaz.

 

[HeDa]

Free will is very much connected to love. In order to love we have to freely choose it. As I often write here it is impossible to love without free will - to want the best for the other person. Without free will we are more or less robots or puppets connected to strings that someone else moves so that the puppet acts.

We can’t love God and neighbour if we don’t have free will. One of the best penances I receive when going to Confession is actually to pray for the person I sin against. I can’t change the person but with praying for him or her it can change me and how I see that other person.

God is not treating us as puppets connected to strings that He moves. There are many, many persons being asked by God to do something and they choose to do it. And then there are those who choose not to. The longing in our hearts to love and do good comes from God Himself. Sometimes it is very clear but I would say that most of the times we don’t recognise God´s presence until after if at all.

 

[C4THOLIC]

Thank you for all the replies. This was an interesting question and I found the answers very helpful.