Friday Penance while Traveling

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hawksnest23

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Hi friends,

Here’s a layered, possibly tough question: I’ll be traveling these upcoming days and will spend time in Hungary and Croatia. In the U.S. on Fridays (outside Lent) we’re asked to do some penance, but in some other countries there is the sorta more old school no meat thing. First, does anyone happen to know what the rules are in Hungary and Croatia? And second, while there, do I abide by their rules or by U.S. rules?

Thanks for the responses!
 
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This comes up from time to time, usually with regard to a Holy Day of obligation that is transferred to Sunday in one’s home diocese but not in the diocese where one is physically located on the day in question. If I remember correctly, we are not obligated to adhere to the decisions of the bishops in countries we are only visiting.

I have an appointment in 20 minutes so I don’t have time to elaborate 😬 Hopefully someone else can do so (and correct/clarify my own comments if I’m off base).
 
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The traditional rule is “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.” It goes back to St. Augustine, who was talking about whether one should do the North African thing, the Milan thing, or the Roman thing.

That said, the Friday penance of refraining from meat is universal, whereas having the option to do another penance is according to local bishops. OTOH, olden days moral theologians allowed you to eat meat if you do not have a choice in your food, if you are doing strenuous stuff, if the host made a special meal without knowing about the meat, if you are sick, etc – including “if you are traveling.”
 
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You are always bound by the rules of your home diocese, even when you are visiting elsewhere. So, you can continue to follow the rules of USA.
 
Travelers are covered by their own bishop’s rules, yup. Of course, if you stop and stay for a while, like St. Augustine, eventually you are a member of the diocese where you are.

In general, canon law lets you do whatever is advantageous and does not make you do what is impossible.

(Travel is different for priests and religious, though, since they are bound to bishops and communities more permanently.)
 
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As a practical matter, when you’re traveling, and perhaps going through a number of places in a short time, many of which don’t speak English as the primary language, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find out the rule for each diocese you happened to land in. When I was in Hungary, I had enough trouble just finding out when and where the local Masses were.
 
Thanks for the responses! Just to clarify, you’re saying follow the U.S. rules right (i.e., agreeing with Tis_Bearself)?
 
My suggestion: ask your priest. If he believes you have an obligation to abstain from meat on Fridays, ask for a dispensation.
 
hawksnest23 said:
And second, while there, do I abide by their rules or by U.S. rules?
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You aren’t bound by particular law of your territory when you are a traveler absent from the territory. You aren’t bound by the particular law of the place you’ve traveled to, either. (Canon 13)

You are bound by universal law, unless it is not in force in the territory where you happen to be in which case you are exempt. (Canon 12)

So, you can choose to continue your practice of substituting a penance as per your own territory’s particular law, or you can abide by universal law on the matter.

You need not be concerned with what the particular laws are in Croatia or Hungary.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
You are always bound by the rules of your home diocese, even when you are visiting elsewhere.
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That isn’t actually true, per canon law. See canon 13. Travellers are exempt from the particular laws of their territory when they are absent from it.
 
Thanks for the correction.
But being exempt from it doesn’t mean that they need to learn what the rule is where they’re “passing through” and follow that, do they?
Seems like it would be very difficult when you are staying somewhere for 1-2 nights…

It really seems like the only clear way to deal with this is to just either practice abstinence wherever you are (this is what I do because it’s just easier), or ask your priest.
 
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Mintaka said:
The traditional rule is “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.” It goes back to St. Augustine, who was talking about whether one should do the North African thing, the Milan thing, or the Roman thing.
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Just as FYI - the “do as the Romans do” was in regards to postures / customs at Mass. So it doesn’t 100% apply here. HOWEVER, if Catholics in that area refrain from Meat it makes it that much easier to do that too 🙂
 
hawksnest23 said:
Hi friends,

Here’s a layered, possibly tough question: I’ll be traveling these upcoming days and will spend time in Hungary and Croatia. In the U.S. on Fridays (outside Lent) we’re asked to do some penance, but in some other countries there is the sorta more old school no meat thing. First, does anyone happen to know what the rules are in Hungary and Croatia? And second, while there, do I abide by their rules or by U.S. rules?

Thanks for the responses!
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My suggestion, since this seems to be concerning you is to simply refrain from meat on the Friday(s) while traveling - unless you can’t due to some business meal or meal that is prepared for you.

It never hurts to eat just salad and/or seafood on a Friday. 🙂
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
But being exempt from it doesn’t mean that they need to learn what the rule is where they’re “passing through” and follow that, do they?
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No. You are not bound by the particular laws of the place you happen to be as a traveler.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
It really seems like the only clear way to deal with this is to just either practice abstinence wherever you are (this is what I do because it’s just easier), or ask your priest.
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They could also continue to follow the laws of their home diocese, even if they aren’t bound.
 
Actually, the way the laws are written, you could actually end up not being bound to anything while you’re travelling.

When you’re away from your home territory, your home territory’s laws don’t bind you. And when you’re in another place away from your territory, that place’s laws don’t bind you either.

I also think that because particular law was issued for the traveller’s home diocese, this “trumps” universal law, which also won’t bind him because it was no longer “issued for” him.

And under the principle that “the least burdensome interpretation prevails”, the most likely result is that the obligation to penance while you’re traveling is completely abrogated. It’s just a consequence of the law.

I am not a canon lawyer, but Dan @acanonlawyer is. He can vet this answer and can confirm if universal law kicks in here. But I suspect I’m right and that the Friday penance will not bind the traveler in any shape or form.
 
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Thanks for all the responses! Glad I could spark some discussion haha. Could someone explain to me universal law?

Could it be argued that the universal law is to not eat meat, and its just that some countries have like a substitute to that–a sort of exemption–but outside those countries (e.g., the U.S.) you are also outside that exception, and thus bound to the universal law (which is not eating meat)?

In other words, is it that every country has a particular law, or that there is a universal law that some countries just have like a substitute to?

Someone tell me if I’m way off.
 
You’re correct.

There is nothing in the universal law that requires a particular, penitential practice when it comes to abstinence (the universal law (Latin Church) states that Fridays and Lent are penitential times and that those who are 14 years old and older are subject to the law of abstinence. Edited to add: Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are universal days of fast/abstinence). The particular requirements are, logically, you might say, part of particular law. Travelers are not bound by their own territory’s particular law nor the particular law of the territory they happen to be in while traveling.

Acts of penance, of course, are possible anywhere, anytime, and can be meritorious anywhere, anytime (even though…or, especially when…we are not bound to carry them out).

Dan
 
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Cool, thanks for that. So conclusion: I should probably do some penance (like in the U.S.) but am not bound by whatever these foreign countries rules are? And possibly not bound to do anything at all? Is that right?
 
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