Friday Sermons in Palestine

[hawk]

pmw.org.il/tv%20part6.html

Please watch the videos.

What do you think?

Please note the ahadith about Muslims having to kill all the jews, before the end of the world.

Peace.

In defence of Islam, I must say that these sermons are the work of extremists, and the vast majority of muslims, feel no compulsion to go out and seek the jews hiding (behind rocks and trees) and kill the lot of them.

 

[hawk]

Theological Differences

The theological background of Muhammad’s hostility to Jews can be subdivided into five stages: (1) Muhammad’s efforts to develop and improve on Judaism; (2) Islam’s fulfillment of Judaism; (3) Jewish resistance, based on Muhammad’s confused knowledge of the Torah and his gentile status; (4) his change in prayer direction or qiblah; and (5) Muhammad’s riposte to this resistance. The political tension and ruptures that result in warfare and conquest will be discussed afterwards, but the theological and political differences and strife parallel each other.

(1) First, while Muhammad is settling down in Medina and his position there is insecure, he tries to convince the Jews that his revelations were the continuation of Judaism (and Christianity), the religion of the People of the Book or the Bible. Before he left Mecca, he faced Syria (i.e. Jerusalem) in prayer. The early Muslims in Medina may have observed the fast for the Day of Atonement, and their special Friday worship was a response to the beginning of the Jewish Sabbath from Friday evening to Saturday evening. Muhammad forbad the Muslims from eating the same food prohibited for Jews, namely, pork, blood, carrion, and meat sacrificed to idols (see Sura 2:172-173). It seems, then, that earliest Islam was the development and even improvement on the prior faith, Judaism, or so it seemed to Muhammad. Why would tension grow between Muhammad’s Islam and Judaism?

(2) Allah tells Muhammad in a sura (chapter) revealed in Mecca that the “unlettered” prophet (Muhammad) is described in the Torah and Gospel, and hence predicted and endorsed by the two prior religions:

 7:156 “I shall ordain My mercy for those who are conscious of God and pay the  prescribed alms; who believe in Our Revelations; 157 who follow the Messenger— the unlettered prophet they find described in the Torah that is with them, and in the  Gospel—who commands them to do right and forbids them to do wrong, who makes  good things lawful to them and bad things unlawful” . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

The literary context of these verses shows Moses rebuking the children of Israel for disobeying him. They denied God’s signs and worshiped the golden calf as Moses was coming down with the tablets of stone, inscribed with the Ten Commandments (7:145-156). Verses 156-157 imply that someone better then Moses (and Jesus) is here to guide them rightly. Muhammad declares what is lawful and unlawful and commands people to do right and forbids them to do wrong. The Jews of Muhammad’s time were getting a second chance. Would they accept it after falling away from the Torah, which was changed to begin with?

Bear in mind I do not agree with everything that the writer says, particularly the part about the kiblah, however the rest shows a very clear transition and explanation for Mohammeds changed behaviour to the jews.

By far this is the most accurate rendition of the events that transpired.

I would like to bring to your attention as well, that the verses about jews being “perverted sinners” or “wicked transgressors” is only revealed after the jews rejected the prophethood of Mohammed.

Before that they were too valuable and powerful a people to offend, and the verses actually say very positive things about jews and people of the book in general.

 

[hawk]

contd…

(3) The Jews, however, saw things a little differently. Muhammad was not educated in the Torah. Though he had picked up some elements from the Scriptures, in bits and pieces, which were circulating around Arabia along the trade routes, his knowledge was confused. It is possible that one or two Jewish converts who were knowledgeable in the Torah coached him, as well. Whatever the case, it was not hard for the Jews to contradict him. For example, in Sura 37:100-107, a Meccan sura, he believes that Abraham nearly sacrificed Ishmael, not Isaac, on the altar, though Genesis, the only ancient source on Abraham, does not say this.

In Sura 18:60-82, another Meccan sura, he recounts fanciful tales about Moses and a servant named Khidir (so named in Islamic tradition, but not in the Quran), who got the better of Moses. For example, Khidir made him promise that he would not bring up any topic until Khidir did first. On their travels they met a boy, and Khidir killed him. Forgetting his promise, Moses challenged his servant, but Khidir reminded him of his promise, so Moses repented. Two other such tales are recounted with the same structure. The servant acted mysteriously, Moses challenged him, so Khidir rebuked him and then clarified the hidden purpose of Allah to the baffled Hebrew prophet. Thus, Khidir revealed to him that the boy was rebellious against his parents and a disbeliever. Allah will grant the parents another son, who will behave more righteously. Compared to such a confused Moses, Muhammad is clearly better than he.

As these and other tall tales likely became known to the Jews in Medina, it was only natural for them to point out some contradictions between his revelations and their Bible. It was not difficult for them to reject him as falling outside of Biblical revelation. Besides, Muhammad was a gentile, and that in itself was enough to turn away from him. Thus, hostility grew between the two sides.

1. The fourth stage in the theological domain is the change in prayer direction or the qiblah. Today, Muslims pray towards Mecca and the Kabah, where hundreds of thousands of pilgrims go every year. However, when Muhammad lived in Mecca, he prayed toward Jerusalem. After he arrived in Medina at the end of his Emigration in 622, he still prayed towards Jerusalem. Sixteen months later (February 624, one month before the Battle of Badr), he received revelation from on high to change direction toward the Kabah (Sura 2:122-129; 142-147). How did this come about?

Four factors explain this change or the need for this timely revelation.

First, after Muhammad settled in Medina, he found, as noted, a powerful Jewish presence in his new city. He saw himself as a prophet in the Biblical tradition, but tension between him and the Jews reached a boiling point. So he changed his qiblah towards the Kabah in Mecca. Then, the Jews challenged the prophet: if Muhammad were the new representative of Judaism and monotheism, why was he praying toward the Kabah, which was dedicated to polytheism? He then got a revelation that gave him permission.

The second factor is a partial answer to the challenge from the Jews. He believed that Abraham had built and purified the shrine, so it does not belong to the polytheists, but to him (Suras 2:122-129; 8:34-38). He was the best representative of true monotheism, and he was the one honoring Abraham.

The third concerns the Arab custom of raids. After one year of fruitless raids on Meccan caravans in 623, finally in January 624 Muhammad’s jihadists got a lucky strike, capturing a caravan near Mecca, spilling blood in a sacred month. When they brought the spoils back to Medina, the non-Muslim Medinans were understandably upset because they knew the Meccans could not let their defeat and Muhammad’s violation of a sacred month stand. Conflict would have to escalate in order to restore the Meccans’ honor. What was his justification?

Fourth, besides his theological belief that Abraham built the Kabah, it must not be overlooked that the shrine was a popular site of pilgrimage in the Arabian Peninsula, so it generated a lot of income. Since early Islam is expansionist, Muhammad could not let the Kabah alone until “religion becomes that of Allah” (Sura 2:193, Fakhry, An Interpretation of the Qur’an, NYUP, 2000, 2004). It must become a site of pilgrimage and support for Muslims, as Muhammad himself admits: “God has made the Kabah—the Sacred House—a means of support for people” . . . (Sura 5:97, Haleem).

So it is in the historical context of the tension with the Jews in Medina, his unassailable (but unfounded) belief that Abraham built and purified the Kabah, the raids on Meccan caravans, and the Kabah’s popularity that Muhammad turned his face toward Mecca in prayer to Allah.

 

[hawk]

contd…

(5) Finally, given such contradictions and confused Biblical knowledge, Muhammad had to fight back theologically, striking out on a new path and reinterpreting matters in the new light of Abraham’s religion, if Muhammad’s new competitor religion is to survive. This new struggle lasted for several years until the Jews were no longer a threat, and then he directed his aggressive energies against the Christians. But until that time, he struck back in at least four ways.

First, he claimed, for instance, that Abraham was not a Jew (nor a Christian) (Sura 3:67), so original monotheism is open to another descendant of Abraham: Muhammad himself and his Arabs who were believed to descend from the first monotheist through Ishmael.

Second, the Hebrew Bible (and the New Testament) was corrupted, distorted, and perniciously misinterpreted and misapplied (Suras 2:75, 79; 3:77-78; 4:44-49). The Quran, on the other hand, came directly from Allah through Gabriel and hence is incorruptible, straightforward, and clear (Suras 39:28, 55:1, 75:19, 26:193, 2:97). Muhammad’s religion wins out over any contradictions, in his mind. In addition, Jews were said to conceal the truth about Muhammad’s prophethood and the righteous practices of Islam (Suras 2:42, 146, 159, 174; 3:187-188; 5:70), so the Bible really testifies about him, though the Jews do not want this to leak out.

Third, from Muhammad’s point of view, both Judaism and Christianity made exclusive claims of being the right way (Sura 2:111-113), yet both came from the same children of Israel; thus, both religions in Muhammad’s time went astray from their origins. So if some claims of all three religions are contradictory, then the fault lies in the first two religions, not his, which resolves all contradictions—in his logic.

Fourth, as noted, the Torah itself says that the children of Israel disobeyed Moses in denying God’s signs and in worshipping the golden calf. If the Jews of Moses’ time were disobedient, then in Muhammad’s logic the Jews as a whole in his own time cannot be purer (Sura 7:145-156), though some are acknowledged as staying true (Sura 3:113-115). And thus Muhammad’s religion is the better and purer representation of Abraham and fulfills and completes Judaism.

 

[Kathy_McAvinue]

Hey Hawk

You know your facts. I am struggling my way through a book written by a RC priest from India who also is aware of the nature of the prophet Mohammed. The Book is “The Life and Religion of Mohammed, The Prophet of Arabia” by Reverand J.L. Menezes written in 1912 before the elavation of tension between Christians and Moslems. He states that Mohammed is a foreshadowing of the anti-Christ to come. Since Mohammed took Jesus off of the cross and rejected the salvation that comes from the cross. Mohammed did this because it didn’t fit into his idea of godly power.
There is also another good book that the differences between Islam and Catholicism written by Daniel Ali and Robert Spencer, "Inside Islam: A Guide for Catholics 100 Questions and Answers.
I don’t feel really comfortable with the tentants of the Islamic faith they seem to be tied to the Earth and Earthly pleasures not striving for Heavenly pleasures like being in the Loving Presence of the Living God.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Kathy McAvinue:

I don’t feel really comfortable with the tentants of the Islamic faith they seem to be tied to the Earth and Earthly pleasures not striving for Heavenly pleasures like being in the Loving Presence of the Living God.

Greetings Kathy;
I am a Muslim, but I leave it to my dear friend hawk -a former Muslim- to correct your statement. You said he knows his facts.I am convinced he will honestly give you the right answer and show you how far you are from the reality.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[hawk]

Joseph_Alison:

Greetings Kathy;
I am a Muslim, but I leave it to my dear friend hawk -a former Muslim- to correct your statement. You said he knows his facts.I am convinced he will honestly give you the right answer and show you how far you are from the reality.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Asalaam Alaykum Yusuf,
Peace Kathy,

I would say that muslims do everything to be with their creator in Jennah. They follow as closely as possible the Quran, so as to attain the reward of heaven.

However I will also say that the Quran is not like the teachings of Christ, in so far as it does not exhort us to be perfect, and to seek to be perfect like God.

In this respect from a Christian perspective the Quran does exhort a human to seek worldly pleasure.

4:24
Also (prohibited are) women already married,** except those whom your right hands possess**: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

The right hand is ofcourse the hand of strength, as such, a woman caught in jihad, or holy war is legitimate to the men that catch her.

Ofcourse when you consider 7th century arabia, this is better treatment than the pagans would give captured muslim women, who would probably be raped and killed.

The problem here is:

Islam was very far ahead of its time in the seventh century.

However because of how it is interpretted today, everything being labelled “bidat” or innovations, you will find that muslims have lost touch with the essence of their faith, which is to liberate, and actually bind themselves in seventh century mind frames.

As more muslims encounter western civilisation, they will become disenchanted with the state of affairs in islam today.

The reality is that Islam as practised today is cultish, especially in the west, because muslims here feel they are being discriminated against, they will not mix with non-muslims, and jsutify this with many verses from the Quran.

I personally do not believe that the Quran is divinely inspired, for many reasons, one of them being:

That Allah actually says extermely racist things, and I cannot believe that Allah will say that “most jews and christians” are sinners.

Muslims will say that this refers to the jews and christians of arabia at that time,

what is important to note is that most muslims ** do not** understand it to mean “jews and christians of arabia”, but “all jews and christians.”

When you note that the jews rejected the message of the Quran, because of their understanding of the Tawrah, it is hard to understand how God can condemn them for this and call them rebellious transgressors.

In addition the Quran itself calls jews a people favoured above others for a while.

Whilst later it calls the same jews of mosaic times, sinners.

At the same time the Quran says that muslims are the best people.

Note how different Jesus’ teachings are, yes he exhorts us to be the salt of the earth and that light of the world.

And to be perfect like our Father in heaven, however Jesus does not say “Christians are the best” , but rather “Christians should try to be the best”

I am rambling, but yes I believe that Muslims strive to be in heaven, however I find the teachings of the Quran do not lead us to salvation, as they are racist and divisive.

 

[Kathy_McAvinue]

Thank You very much for the information. I belief that all humans be they Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Moslem, Buddhist and all others are fallen due to our natures. We all must strive to be the people that we are called to be. I know that I am a sinner. I know that there is much I have to do to improve myself. I cannot condem any other person that is not my role that is in God’s hands. Their are people who call themselves Christian who believe that it is okay to kill unborn children or the to starve the handicap to death. I personally feel that these believes go contray to the teaching of Jesus. I pray that these people have a change of heart.
I love being Catholic. I love receiving the Eucharist. I pray for all who do not know that joy. It is heaven on Earth.

 

[hawk]

Kathy McAvinue:

Thank You very much for the information. I belief that all humans be they Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Moslem, Buddhist and all others are fallen due to our natures. We all must strive to be the people that we are called to be. I know that I am a sinner. I know that there is much I have to do to improve myself. I cannot condem any other person that is not my role that is in God’s hands. Their are people who call themselves Christian who believe that it is okay to kill unborn children or the to starve the handicap to death. I personally feel that these believes go contray to the teaching of Jesus. I pray that these people have a change of heart.
I love being Catholic. I love receiving the Eucharist. I pray for all who do not know that joy. It is heaven on Earth.

quite right, Islam too is opposed to abortion in my reading, yet there are some muslim scholars who will give fatwas to the contrary.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

hawk:

Asalaam Alaykum Yusuf,
Peace Kathy,

I would say that muslims do everything to be with their creator in Jennah. They follow as closely as possible the Quran, so as to attain the reward of heaven.

However I will also say that the Quran is not like the teachings of Christ, in so far as it does not exhort us to be perfect, and to seek to be perfect like God.

In this respect from a Christian perspective the Quran does exhort a human to seek worldly pleasure.

4:24
Also (prohibited are) women already married,** except those whom your right hands possess**: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

The right hand is ofcourse the hand of strength, as such, a woman caught in jihad, or holy war is legitimate to the men that catch her.

Ofcourse when you consider 7th century arabia, this is better treatment than the pagans would give captured muslim women, who would probably be raped and killed.

The problem here is:

Islam was very far ahead of its time in the seventh century.

However because of how it is interpretted today, everything being labelled “bidat” or innovations, you will find that muslims have lost touch with the essence of their faith, which is to liberate, and actually bind themselves in seventh century mind frames.

As more muslims encounter western civilisation, they will become disenchanted with the state of affairs in islam today.

The reality is that Islam as practised today is cultish, especially in the west, because muslims here feel they are being discriminated against, they will not mix with non-muslims, and jsutify this with many verses from the Quran.

I personally do not believe that the Quran is divinely inspired, for many reasons, one of them being:

That Allah actually says extermely racist things, and I cannot believe that Allah will say that “most jews and christians” are sinners.

Muslims will say that this refers to the jews and christians of arabia at that time,

what is important to note is that most muslims ** do not** understand it to mean “jews and christians of arabia”, but “all jews and christians.”

When you note that the jews rejected the message of the Quran, because of their understanding of the Tawrah, it is hard to understand how God can condemn them for this and call them rebellious transgressors.

In addition the Quran itself calls jews a people favoured above others for a while.

Whilst later it calls the same jews of mosaic times, sinners.

At the same time the Quran says that muslims are the best people.

Note how different Jesus’ teachings are, yes he exhorts us to be the salt of the earth and that light of the world.

And to be perfect like our Father in heaven, however Jesus does not say “Christians are the best” , but rather “Christians should try to be the best”

I am rambling, but yes I believe that Muslims strive to be in heaven, however I find the teachings of the Quran do not lead us to salvation, as they are racist and divisive.

Salaam Friend hawk;
Thank you very much for responding to our Friend Kathy. I hope she now understands that a Muslim life is dedicated to the worship of the Creator. A Muslim considers this life to be only a bridge; the true life is after death.

I was not expecting you to tell her Islam is the truth, but I think you answered honestly according to your knowledge. There are many things in your answer you know we don’t agree on, but no big deal, we will always differ therein.

Just one comment about your statement: " At the same time the Quran says that Muslims are the best people”. I guess you were referring to verse 3:110 “Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah”. As you can see, there are three conditions, enjoin right conduct, forbid indecency and believe in Allah (SWT), in any community, be it Muslim or else, if these three conditions are lost, decadence and morale bankruptcy install themselves, and as you well know, decadence and morale bankruptcy do not have a limit; it is the continuous fall.

My hope is that our Friend Kathy learns about Islamic teachings from Islamic sources.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[LtTony]

I don’t feel really comfortable with the tentants of the Islamic faith they seem to be tied to the Earth and Earthly pleasures not striving for Heavenly pleasures like being in the Loving Presence of the Living God…
…At the same time the Quran says that muslims are the best people.

Note how different Jesus’ teachings are, yes he exhorts us to be the salt of the earth and that light of the world.

And to be perfect like our Father in heaven, however Jesus does not say “Christians are the best” , but rather “Christians should try to be the best”

I am rambling, but yes I believe that Muslims strive to be in heaven, however I find the teachings of the Quran do not lead us to salvation, as they are racist and divisive…
…Thank You very much for the information. I belief that all humans be they Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Moslem, Buddhist and all others are fallen due to our natures. We all must strive to be the people that we are called to be. I know that I am a sinner. I know that there is much I have to do to improve myself. I cannot condem any other person that is not my role that is in God’s hands. Their are people who call themselves Christian who believe that it is okay to kill unborn children or the to starve the handicap to death. I personally feel that these believes go contray to the teaching of Jesus. I pray that these people have a change of heart.
I love being Catholic. I love receiving the Eucharist. I pray for all who do not know that joy. It is heaven on Earth.​

Kathy: You expressed my feelings almost exactly, although your Christian understanding of Islam far surpasses mine. Our Muslim friends would still say we have a long way to go, which is understandable.
At this early stage in my attempts to grasp Islam, the earthly answers provided by Islam (as I understand it) strike me as contrary to my inate sensibility of God. At times, it seems to represent the worst elements of Christianity.
I struggle to put cultural predispositions aside.
Joseph: Thank you for your measured and charitable response to any misunderstandings we may have.

Jim

 

[Kathy_McAvinue]

Lt. Tony
I have reading books I can get my hands on since September 11, 2001 when my cousin was killed in the world trade center on the 87th floor of tower two. The planes came right into her floor she never had an opportunity to get out. I was angry at first with God for allowing such evil to be done in his name. That is when I started reading books by Catholics who have worked with Islamic scholars for years. I tried to read the Koran but did not want to read different scriptures without others. Like it has always been taught in our Catholic Tradition. I would not want to be lead astray. I know that the believes of Moslems is that they are the servants or slaves of Allah and we believe that we are children of God and brothers of the Christ Jesus. We believe that there is some truth in all religions and the fullness of the Truth in Catholicism. Moslem believe that only Islam is true. We believe that we are to lead others to the fullness of the faith by actions and Islam has almost always been spread by the sword.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

LtTony:

---

Joseph: Thank you for your measured and charitable response to any misunderstandings we may have.

Jim
Salaam Friend Jim;
No worries, whatever the misunderstandings might be, my responses will, Incha’Allah, always be measured and charitable.

May be it can help you to know what are the Muslim’ views about God. Although the Qur’an is replete of attributes of Allah (SWT), no one explained them (in my opinion) better that the renowned and universally acclaimed Muslim theologian Al Ghazali. I have found information in the net that says St Thomas Aquinas might have been influenced by his works to establish Christian orthodoxy.

"Ghazali’s influence was deep and everlasting. He is one of the greatest theologians of Islam. His theological doctrines penetrated Europe, influenced Jewish and Christian Scholasticism and several of his arguments seem to have been adopted by St. Thomas Aquinas in order to similarly reestablish the authority of orthodox Christian religion in the West "Source here

His work “The foundations of the Islamic belief ”, is a must read for everyone trying to grasp the vision Muslims have of God.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Kathy McAvinue:

Lt. Tony
I have reading books I can get my hands on since September 11, 2001 when my cousin was killed in the world trade center on the 87th floor of tower two. The planes came right into her floor she never had an opportunity to get out. I was angry at first with God for allowing such evil to be done in his name. That is when I started reading books by Catholics who have worked with Islamic scholars for years. I tried to read the Koran but did not want to read different scriptures without others. Like it has always been taught in our Catholic Tradition. I would not want to be lead astray. I know that the believes of Moslems is that they are the servants or slaves of Allah and we believe that we are children of God and brothers of the Christ Jesus. We believe that there is some truth in all religions and the fullness of the Truth in Catholicism. Moslem believe that only Islam is true. We believe that we are to lead others to the fullness of the faith by actions and Islam has almost always been spread by the sword.

Greetings Kathy;
I am sorry to hear about your cousin. The least I can say is that that day was a very sad day to me.

Salaam.
Joseph.