Friend and tying tubes. Need help!

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echasel

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A coworker/friend is planning on tieing off her tubes after #3. She is 3 mo. along so I have a little time enlighten her.

Background- she is a convert he is an ok cradle Cat.-

They miss church once and while. Observe some holy days. She teaches CCD. Fairly average folks. She has been listening to a few things I have told her. Matter of fact the first time she mentioned tubes tied I said “you know it is against the church teaching” which did not tick her off but did not gain any ground either. My approach needs to be proactive I think.

So give me some advice on how to proceed. I did tell her my wife and I use the Craton model which she kind of knew about. That seemed interesting to her. But, we just started two months ago and misread one of our signs and are pregnant.(trying to avoid) So we are not the best salesmen on NFP etc.

Thanks
Eric
 
If you want to keep her as a friend, I think you should back off. This is a very personal decision. I am sure you wouldn’t like a Cafeteria Catholic telling you what a bad decision you have made in having more children or commenting on your not using birth control. You have told her what you thought. Now you can pray.
 
How old are they? It isn’t about having more children, it is about the lost of that oppotunity to be open. just because they are comfortable with three now, doesn’t mean they will think they same way a year from now. My son is four months, I really have no interest in being pregnant all over again but give me a year or two and the idea of having another child will be there again.
 
They are in their mid/upper 30s. #3 was not expected. Of cource they were using no contraceptive but not trying to get pregnant??? Long and short, they did not want more kids but have #3 coming in May. This is the last one she says…

And by the way, except for that one time I have not mentioned anything about BC and the church. That is not my style, but since finding these boards and becoming more involved in my faith I thought is was the thing to do at the time.

Thanks

Eric
 
“The Church says so” argument will probably be ineffective unless she gives moral authority to the Church in the first place. Moreover, sterilization is not merely a Catholic issue, but deals with the universal truths about human nature.

A possible argument would be to appeal to her innate appreciation of human dignity. We tie the tubes of brute animals because they are unable to control themselves. If we sterilize human persons, who have the awesome power of freedom, what are we saying?
 
I think the brute animal argument will really turn her off. My Irish Catholic grandmother told my Lutheran mother who insisted on using birth control, that she was no better than the barnyard animals. Do you think this caused my mother to change her mind and to love the Catholic Church? Hah, my mother quoted that line with disgust for years and it really drove a wedge between her and my grandma. I
 
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echasel:
A coworker/friend is planning on tieing off her tubes after #3. She is 3 mo. along so I have a little time enlighten her.

Background- she is a convert he is an ok cradle Cat.-

They miss church once and while. Observe some holy days. She teaches CCD. Fairly average folks. She has been listening to a few things I have told her. Matter of fact the first time she mentioned tubes tied I said “you know it is against the church teaching” which did not tick her off but did not gain any ground either. My approach needs to be proactive I think.

So give me some advice on how to proceed. I did tell her my wife and I use the Craton model which she kind of knew about. That seemed interesting to her. But, we just started two months ago and misread one of our signs and are pregnant.(trying to avoid) So we are not the best salesmen on NFP etc.

Thanks
Eric
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Go to www.omsoul.com.

One More Soul has excellent resources including books/pamplets/tapes and specifically stories of women who’ve had tubals and regretted/reversed them. Lots of great info on why contraception is wrong, and about NFP.
 
good luck:thumbsup:
we are a community of believers, living and Saints.

We are supposed to lead each other away from sin. If she knows the church teaching and turns her back then I guess you did all that you could.

I’ll pray too
 
I know how she feels. Only one of my kids was actually “planned”…and the last one was definitely not on the scope at the time. But you know what? It’s about how each of us views our lives at the time that helps us understand God’s plan.

Your friend isn’t going to accept any criticism. But she might enjoy talking while you listen and ask a few probing (but not intrusive) questions. Maybe it’s solution that she’s turning to because there are other circumstances that make the possibility of another baby something dire. But maybe if you gently introduce information like the Couple to Couple League and how effective NFP can be, then she might show a little interest. If she does, then see if you can get some literature for her. If not, then you know to back off.

Most of all, I’ve always found it very effective to just be a good friend and a good listener. Sometimes people can talk themselves into the right answer just by having a good friend there and talk it through to the end. Sounds like you’re already half way there.
 
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bapcathluth:
I think the brute animal argument will really turn her off. My Irish Catholic grandmother told my Lutheran mother who insisted on using birth control, that she was no better than the barnyard animals. Do you think this caused my mother to change her mind and to love the Catholic Church? Hah, my mother quoted that line with disgust for years and it really drove a wedge between her and my grandma. I
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I got to say you are driving a wedge with me.

This is a forum to help people out, not to vent about your grandmother. I really feel sorry for #3, that is why no matter if we are trying or avoiding the need to be “open to life” is so improtant. Children are blessings not burdens. If you love yourself and love your spouse, a child will always be welcomed and loved. Why hate something that came out of something called “love making” to the point of permanently scarring your sexual organs.

Talking about barnyard animals, I think your grandmother was on to something. I think it is interesting that everyone is up in arms about drinking milk created with artifical bovine hormones, but no one thinks twice in society when a woman takes the pill for the majority of her fertile time span.
 
This person’s question wasn’t whether we agree or not, it was what he should do. I am helping him and not venting about my grandmother. Human nature is such that most people don’t like being compared to barnyard animals. You may think that, but if he is really trying to help and keep the friendship, I think it would be unwise to say something like that. Simple common sense about interpersonal relations should tell you that. I am not just venting about my grandmother!! I loved her dearly although I may not have agreed with everything she believed.

By the way, she at least was family, but this fellow is only a co-worker–even more reason to be diplomatic.
 
OK we have gone way off topic.

ERIC, your origional question:
So give me some advice on how to proceed.
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I have to agree with bapcathluth when she says:
If you want to keep her as a friend, I think you should back off. You have told her what you thought. Now you can pray.
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Where as I do not agree with you co-workers decision, all you can do, all any of us can do, is pray.

God Bless you for helping a friend, not too may people would go out of their way to do what you are doing.
 
Since this person is a friend, you have an obligation, through love of Christ and love of your fellow man, to evangalize. Why not suggest that since she is (somewhat) serious about her faith (after all, she is a CCD teacher and attends Church, albeit sporadically), she should read/research the Church’s position on 1) artificial BC, specifically sterilization and 2) love, marriage and family.

Try to engage her in a serious discussion using open ended questions.
 
I think you are over stepping your bounds as a co-worker. This is not a life or death situation as with an abortion etc. In the end she will be the one to deal with this situation, she maybe happy, she maybe unhappy.
 
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