Friend considering coverting to Islam

[anilorak13ska]

I have a friend who was raised nominally Catholic but has never really practiced her Catholic faith. She has always had a strong interest in Persian culture, and after a recent trip to Dubai, has announced that she is considering converting to Islam. She says she feels that she’s always been Muslim, but just didn’t know it.

I’ve offered to share my conversion (reversion) story with her. I’ve asked her what she finds alluring about Islam, but she doesn’t name anything in particular, other than this life-long attraction to it. Regarding Catholicism, she says she never got certain aspects of our faith: original sin, the trinity (especially how Jesus is God), and the Eucharist. She says she is planning to speak with a priest about it.

I’m encouraging her to include Catholicism on her spiritual journey, so that she may rediscover the beauty of our faith. Sadly, I think most of what I’ve been exposed to in most American churches has been watered-down and protestantized. I’m not surprised about her confusion, because I was there, too. I had all the same questions and concerns.

How do I best talk to her right now, so that she feels comfortable discussing her journey with me without feeling judged or pressured to make a decision about her faith? How do I balance my desire to get her fired up about Jesus and the joy He brings and being sensitive to the fact that she may very well have to go through a time of being Muslim in order to come around to His church?

When I started my journey back, I was a stone-cold feminist, and no one could’ve convinced me that Jesus’s love was more important that the issues I fixated on. But God met me where I was, and through a time of being Pagan, He finally brought me back (years later) to His RCC. I don’t want to interfere if God has a similar plan for my friend. I also don’t want to miss an opportunity to share Christ’s love with her.

Suggestions?

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Her heart is leading her toward Islam, but she should not ignore what her head is telling her. She can’t give a specific reason, intellectually for being drawn toward Islam, but it offers attractions that appeal to her heart. The problem is, it is only a matter of time before we think rationally again, once the heart has its desire.

 

[mab23]

quick get her some books on Catholicism - something that will bring her back to the Faith

Rediscover Catholicism is a good one

plus there are many others

 

[thistle]

I have a friend who was raised nominally Catholic but has never really practiced her Catholic faith. She has always had a strong interest in Persian culture, and after a recent trip to Dubai, has announced that she is considering converting to Islam. She says she feels that she’s always been Muslim, but just didn’t know it.

I’ve offered to share my conversion (reversion) story with her. I’ve asked her what she finds alluring about Islam, but she doesn’t name anything in particular, other than this life-long attraction to it. Regarding Catholicism, she says she never got certain aspects of our faith: original sin, the trinity (especially how Jesus is God), and the Eucharist. She says she is planning to speak with a priest about it.

I’m encouraging her to include Catholicism on her spiritual journey, so that she may rediscover the beauty of our faith. Sadly, I think most of what I’ve been exposed to in most American churches has been watered-down and protestantized. I’m not surprised about her confusion, because I was there, too. I had all the same questions and concerns.

How do I best talk to her right now, so that she feels comfortable discussing her journey with me without feeling judged or pressured to make a decision about her faith? How do I balance my desire to get her fired up about Jesus and the joy He brings and being sensitive to the fact that she may very well have to go through a time of being Muslim in order to come around to His church?

When I started my journey back, I was a stone-cold feminist, and no one could’ve convinced me that Jesus’s love was more important that the issues I fixated on. But God met me where I was, and through a time of being Pagan, He finally brought me back (years later) to His RCC. I don’t want to interfere if God has a similar plan for my friend. I also don’t want to miss an opportunity to share Christ’s love with her.

Suggestions?

You mean she is a supporter of cutting off people’s hands and heads and she supports the killing of all Christians and Jews. Islam teaches that Muslims should not make friends with Christians and Jews and that they should be killed.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I have a friend who was raised nominally Catholic but has never really practiced her Catholic faith. She has always had a strong interest in Persian culture, and after a recent trip to Dubai, has announced that she is considering converting to Islam. She says she feels that she’s always been Muslim, but just didn’t know it.

I’ve offered to share my conversion (reversion) story with her. I’ve asked her what she finds alluring about Islam, but she doesn’t name anything in particular, other than this life-long attraction to it. Regarding Catholicism, she says she never got certain aspects of our faith: original sin, the trinity (especially how Jesus is God), and the Eucharist. She says she is planning to speak with a priest about it.

I’m encouraging her to include Catholicism on her spiritual journey, so that she may rediscover the beauty of our faith. Sadly, I think most of what I’ve been exposed to in most American churches has been watered-down and protestantized. I’m not surprised about her confusion, because I was there, too. I had all the same questions and concerns.

How do I best talk to her right now, so that she feels comfortable discussing her journey with me without feeling judged or pressured to make a decision about her faith? How do I balance my desire to get her fired up about Jesus and the joy He brings and being sensitive to the fact that she may very well have to go through a time of being Muslim in order to come around to His church?

When I started my journey back, I was a stone-cold feminist, and no one could’ve convinced me that Jesus’s love was more important that the issues I fixated on. But God met me where I was, and through a time of being Pagan, He finally brought me back (years later) to His RCC. I don’t want to interfere if God has a similar plan for my friend. I also don’t want to miss an opportunity to share Christ’s love with her.

Suggestions?

** I don’t want to interfere if God has a similar plan for my friend. I also don’t want to miss an opportunity to share Christ’s love with her.**

I agree this sentence is the crux of the matter. My observations would be:

• If you have personally experienced how God uses “pagan periods” to his advantage… whence excessive concern for your friend?
• Her salvation does not seem to rest primarily with you. Why the messiah complex? If you are emotionally attached to your friend I could see this explaining your excessive concern.
• If she is going this way more and more then I would say you have already “missed your opportunity to share Christ’s love with her.” A bit late now - the opportunity is already gone. This suggests you shouldn’t overly interfere with God’s plan.

Maybe its really your own personal grief (rather than Christ’s) that is making you feel so desperate here? If so, why not communicate that if appropriate. But be clear, it looks more about you as a friend who is upset rather than God.
AmbroseSJ sees the long-term plan. If she is sincere then eventually her head will come right once her heart has exhausted itself with passing trinkets. It may take time, results vary.

 

[anilorak13ska]

Blue Horizon, if you read the other responses I’ve gotten, you’ll see why my confusion over what exactly ought to be my response. One person urges me to surround my friend with Catholic sources, another doesn’t see a problem that should concern me at all. And honestly, I think it’s unfair for you to say I have “missed the boat” in showing her Christ’s love, as if the fact that she’s considering a different faith is indicative of my bad witness. I guess I should’ve specified grammatically “continue to show her Christ’s love”.

Thistle, to be fair, I think yours is a misrepresentation of Islam. Obviously, the things you describe are done in the name of Islam, but similar things have been done in the name of Christianity. It does not mean they are representative of what the religion actually teaches. I have lifelong Muslim friends who by no means support violence or in any way think I’m going to hell for being Catholic. (And yes, I have read the Qur’an.)

I think I may have come to an understanding of my concern. I still have a lot of protestant world-views in my subconscience, since it was protestantism that got me back on my path of following Christ. In their view, my friend is in danger of going to hell if she goes through with a conversion to Islam. I’m trying to figure out if as a Catholic I’m supposed to believe that. Currently, I do not. So I’m no longer panicky about the state of her soul. I have been in dialogue with her and hope to continue to do so.

Thanks for everyone’s feedback!

 

[thistle]

Blue Horizon, if you read the other responses I’ve gotten, you’ll see why my confusion over what exactly ought to be my response. One person urges me to surround my friend with Catholic sources, another doesn’t see a problem that should concern me at all. And honestly, I think it’s unfair for you to say I have “missed the boat” in showing her Christ’s love, as if the fact that she’s considering a different faith is indicative of my bad witness. I guess I should’ve specified grammatically “continue to show her Christ’s love”.

Thistle, to be fair, I think yours is a misrepresentation of Islam. Obviously, the things you describe are done in the name of Islam, but similar things have been done in the name of Christianity. It does not mean they are representative of what the religion actually teaches. I have lifelong Muslim friends who by no means support violence or in any way think I’m going to hell for being Catholic. (And yes, I have read the Qur’an.)

I think I may have come to an understanding of my concern. I still have a lot of protestant world-views in my subconscience, since it was protestantism that got me back on my path of following Christ. In their view, my friend is in danger of going to hell if she goes through with a conversion to Islam. I’m trying to figure out if as a Catholic I’m supposed to believe that. Currently, I do not. So I’m no longer panicky about the state of her soul. I have been in dialogue with her and hope to continue to do so.

Thanks for everyone’s feedback!

No. What I said is actually in the documented teachings of Islam. This is why its so easy for the fanatics to justify their murderous deeds because its part of the teachings of Islam.

 

[Immacolata]

You mean she is a supporter of cutting off people’s hands and heads and she supports the killing of all Christians and Jews. Islam teaches that Muslims should not make friends with Christians and Jews and that they should be killed.

Extremist Muslims impose strict sharia law, stone women, and despise Christians and Jews (and believe they should be killed).

Muslims strive to reach excellence in their worship (ihsan), to have faith in God (iman), and to submit to God (islam). Just as there are Catholics (as well as all Christians) who do not follow the teachings of Christ and of the Bible, just as there are Jews who do not follow the principles of their faith (no strict set of rules to follow, but the central belief system is compiled into Ramam’s Thirteen Principles), there are Muslims who do not follow their three principles of their faith.

Not all Muslims are bad, just as not all Christians are bad. It is not good to think all Muslims believe that way.

 

[studychristian]

Don’t just talk about Political Islam to her, talk about theological issues: i.e. why did the followers of Jesus believe that he was divine and so forth.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

And honestly, I think it’s unfair for you to say I have “missed the boat” in showing her Christ’s love, as if the fact that she’s considering a different faith is indicative of my bad witness. I guess I should’ve specified grammatically “continue to show her Christ’s love”.
Thanks for everyone’s feedback!

Good for you! My intent was merely to replay back to you my initial instinctual reactions to what you wrote. This is a good “Johari” technique for revealing 'what others can see in me but what I cannot see in myself." That I have provoked you (in a friendly way) to an emotional response means you have been able to dig deeper and find the answer you probably knew was already there.

Be careful of another false assumption “as if the fact that she’s considering a different faith is indicative of my bad witness” which is not at all what I am thinking.

Maybe you need to deconstruct a little more what you really mean by “I also don’t want to miss an opportunity to share Christ’s love with her.” Freudian slips" are important insights into what we hide from ourselves. I suspect it means something completely different from what you think it means. Good luck.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Does she want to be a black muslim?

 

[anilorak13ska]

Thanks again. I do tend to be overly sensitive to people’s comments, taking things personally when perhaps nothing was meant by them. This is good to keep in mind.

I think my friend’s consideration is evoking in me a realization that I need to iron out what it means for me to be a witness to Christ. Ie. do I have a responsibility to my friend and if so, what is it?

I’ve been in touch with her by email over the past week or so, questioning her intentions and sharing parts of my journey, but then last night she sent out a strange message, inviting me and the other friend who was there at her “announcement” for a “last hoorah” before her excommunication. Now I’m concerned. It’s one thing to honestly seek God, but it’s another to make a big splash of leaving Christ’s church. The other friend is a nominal Catholic who really doesn’t believe many of our basic church tenants (most recently I learned that she doesn’t believe in the Real Presence, and in the past she’s talked to me about crystals and such). I’m afraid that it would be a bad witness if I participated in something that she has framed as a “pre-excommunication farewell” party.

 

[ChemicalBean]

Her heart is leading her toward Islam, but she should not ignore what her head is telling her. She can’t give a specific reason, intellectually for being drawn toward Islam, but it offers attractions that appeal to her heart. The problem is, it is only a matter of time before we think rationally again, once the heart has its desire.

Bingo.

You won’t win her back with apologetics, or suggested reading, or any sort of intellectual argument or comparison. You might lose her in trying, because she will be even more likely to believe that Christianity is all head and has nothing for her heart, if this is all you have to offer as an obvious last-ditch effort.

Islam supposedly means “submission to the will of God,” and Muslims will often say that when you do this you already are Muslim. There is something refreshingly honest and simple about that. It’s also nice to only have to keep the 5 pillars. But notice, the pillars sound a lot like the Christian life during Lent…prayer, fasting, and almsgiving are three of them. Prayer even revolves around times of the day, and the church has an organized way of doing that too: the Liturgy of the Hours.

Challenge her to two things before her “party”:

1.) Make a prayer date with adoration before the Blessed Sacrament, just you and her. Set some ground rules so it doesn’t get too boring or too weird, like a minimum of 15 minutes and a maximum of 1/2 hr…you together decide when it’s time to leave. You can adopt any posture you like (sitting, kneeling, standing, planking…), anywhere in the chapel you like, but you both do it together, near each other for moral support, and neither of you goes to sleep. You both have reading material to reflect on, like the sunday readings or Romans 8, and you both have a pencil and paper to write if you like. You both agree that “freestyle” prayer is okay, even if it’s “God, if you’re really there, I don’t get this and it’s dumb.” You both agree to pray for each other at some point. You both accept in advance that the worst thing that could happen is a wasted quarter hour, so you can “dare” God to let it not go to waste!

2.) If there is a monastic community anywhere within driving distance, setup a weekend visit. You are both free to explore the grounds as visitors, listen to iPods, volunteer labor, whatever, but you agree to follow the Liturgy of the Hours schedule just as the monks do. Try to get a briefing by one of the community before or just after the first hour, so you can ask questions about "why do they process/chant/bow/etc as they do and do it all 5-7 times a day. The point is to experience and explore the “ideal” Christian community life…anything that Islam has on the surface, Christianity already had.

 

[seeker_of_God]

I think I may have come to an understanding of my concern. I still have a lot of protestant world-views in my subconscience, since it was protestantism that got me back on my path of following Christ. In their view, my friend is in danger of going to hell if she goes through with a conversion to Islam. I’m trying to figure out if as a Catholic I’m supposed to believe that. Currently, I do not. So I’m no longer panicky about the state of her soul. I have been in dialogue with her and hope to continue to do so.

I don’t want to make you “panicky” again, but it is not true that she will not be in danger. To leave the Church is to formally reject it, which is always a grave sin, given that the person knew that the Church was the one founded by Christ. We don’t know the state of catechesis given to your friend, so we can’t know how much she knew, but it is still a grave danger.

Leo XIII: Satis cognitum
The Church of Christ, therefore, is one and the same for ever; those who leave it depart from the will and command of Christ, the Lord - leaving the path of salvation they enter on that of perdition. “Whosoever is separated from the Church is united to an adulteress. He has cut himself off from the promises of the Church, and he who leaves the Church of Christ cannot arrive at the rewards of Christ…He who observes not this unity observes not the law of God, holds not the faith of the Father and the Son, clings not to life and salvation” (S. Cyprianus, De Cath. Eccl. Unitate, n. 6).

Lumen Gentium, 14
14. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.

Emphasis mine; see especially the last sentence in bold.

This isn’t to say to smother your friend with apologetics, as this can push her away. But perhaps try to talk to her charitably, and express your concern. Perhaps address some of her concerns about the Church if possible.

Failing that, pray for her. I’m in the process of praying a 54-day Rosary novena for the conversion of a dear friend who is currently Buddhist, but showing some promising signs. I have faith in God that He will act justly and mercifully, and in Mary that she will intercede for such intentions.

I agree I wouldn’t participate in this “party” of hers.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Thanks again. I do tend to be overly sensitive to people’s comments, taking things personally when perhaps nothing was meant by them. This is good to keep in mind.

I think my friend’s consideration is evoking in me a realization that I need to iron out what it means for me to be a witness to Christ. Ie. do I have a responsibility to my friend and if so, what is it?

I’ve been in touch with her by email over the past week or so, questioning her intentions and sharing parts of my journey, but then last night she sent out a strange message, inviting me and the other friend who was there at her “announcement” for a “last hoorah” before her excommunication. Now I’m concerned. It’s one thing to honestly seek God, but it’s another to make a big splash of leaving Christ’s church. The other friend is a nominal Catholic who really doesn’t believe many of our basic church tenants (most recently I learned that she doesn’t believe in the Real Presence, and in the past she’s talked to me about crystals and such). I’m afraid that it would be a bad witness if I participated in something that she has framed as a “pre-excommunication farewell” party.

Sorry to say this, but the more you explain her the more it sounds like no real friendship between you two actually exists. It obviously is on your side but your understanding of her doesn’t seem to accord with her reality. I do not get the impression she cares for you at all.

 

[anilorak13ska]

Thank you all again. When I responded to the “party” invite with essentially what I said here, she wrote back that she was trying to “break the ice” (apparently she felt awkward in our attempts at conversation on faith), but also mentioned that she doesn’t like about religion the idea that it’s their way or the highway. That didn’t explain anything for me, so I wrote back saying we must be misunderstanding each other, and I called to try to talk to her live, but got her VM. I was so confused, I asked my husband to read through the email exchanges for his feedback, and he was also confused. He agreed that we can’t “celebrate” with her when she frames it the way she did, and he also saw what I noticed in her “explanation” - namely, that she seemed to be taking religion lightly, trying to joke about it, whereas I take it seriously. I told her I don’t think religion is funny, but now I think she never even wanted to convert seriously, but might’ve thought it’d be funny to see how I’d react. Our other friend, as I mentioned, recently got into a short discussion with me over the Real Presence, and that’s why I think they thought up “breaking the ice” with me - bc they thought my thoughts and feelings on the subject were “too heavy”.

I know on the surface it definitely sounds like these are not good friends, but I also know that I tend to take things too personally. I decided to let things blow over and wait for another opportunity to check in with my friend.

I did recommend an Ignatian retreat to my friend, something I’ve done several times and each time found exceedingly enriching. But in the end, I can’t make her believe or do what isn’t in her heart. DH and I talked about how, as Catholics, we’re not big on evangelizing, so we’re not sure where the balance is between letting God lead each person according to His will and the more Protestant approach (that’s how we see it) of actively trying to get a person to accept Christ.

This has been an interesting test of my faith, for sure.

 

[fred_conty]

anilorak,

Why not give her the Green Scapular of Mary. This is something that Mary gave to us to deal with this kind of faith problem. Here is how Mary agree to help.

… Conversion of those who do not have the faith
… Reconciliation to the Church for those who have lost/strayed from the faith
… Assurance of a happy death
… Strengthening of the faith for those already in the Church
… Protection from Satan for those who wear or promote the scapular

Dosen’t this sound like what she needs?

Have the strongest possible trust in Mary’s promise.
Mary’s own words were:
“The GREATEST graces come from using the scapular but these graces come
in direct proportion to the degree of CONFIDENCE IN ME which the user has.”

The user is you, not the one to whom you give it to.
Confidence means that you trust Mary to keep her promises and will do it.
I don’t think for a second that Mary would every go back on her word.
Just tell her you trust her absolutely in this and know she will do it.
One of the ways to show her your trust is to never worry about it again.
Just tell her it is all in her hands.
Remember it was Mary’s idea, not yours. She wants you to do this.
And she didn’t say when, just that she promised it would happen.

Pray this prayer twice each day, once for her and once for yourself.
“Immaculate heart of Mary pray for us now and at the hour of our death.”

It is best if both of you carry it on you in some way, or in your purse. Have them blessed.
If she won’t, then try to put it somewhere she frequents, like a room, wallet, purse, mattress.
She may put it in her wallet. Maybe she too would agree to say the prayer.
But still say the prayer for her anyway.

Google “green scapular” and you will find some free ones.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=620449
(From an atheist)
How did you come to embrace Catholicism?
Strangely enough, it was the Blessed Virgin Mary. That friend of mine had sneakily
snuck in a scapular under my mattress. I didn’t know until about 1 year into my
conversion. I imagine that she had something to do with it. I think it was the
green scapular.