Friend making poor choices, help!

[CarrieH]

I have a friend whom I’ll call “Annie” (not her real name), and we were pretty close for a few years. Her husband divorced her last year, and in the time since has been living a life which makes me very uncomfortable. Long story short, first she started online dating and had a few sexual flings, and now she has reconnected with her high-school boyfriend on Facebook. He is married but claims to be unhappy , and she is pursuing a relationship with him. He lives several hundred miles away, but she has already had a face-to-face visit with him with the intention of seeing if they still have a “connection” after all these years. As of her latest report, he has talked to his wife about ending their marriage, but so far nothing has been decided one way or the other. Everyone involved here in Catholic; fortunately all of the children from both marriages are grown. I have gently tried to remind Annie of the Church’s teachings on divorce, remarriage, adultery, etc., and the potential consequences of her choices, but she is convinced that “God understands and will forgive her,” even if it means separating herself from the Sacraments. It doesn’t help that her priest has some modernistic ideas and seems to be supportive of what she is doing (from what she says, anyway; I have my doubts about that). Part of me wants to just walk away and be done with her and her drama, but another part of me doesn’t want to turn my back on her…and I care enough about her to hang around in order to help her to pick up the pieces if/when this mess blows up in her face. But in the mean time, I’m having a very hard time “hating the sin but loving the sinner,” and I feel that I am walking a fine line between being a compassionate listener and actually condoning her actions. Basically, I feel like I’m watching a train-wreck about to happen, and all I can do is stand back and pray. Advice, anyone?

 

[PaulinVA]

A divorced woman breaking up another marriage is not okay in anybody’s book, is it? I’m sure non-religious people would feel the same way.

Ask her what she would have felt if this happened to her a few years ago with another woman taking her husband.

 

[PattiDay]

You have told your friend what she already knows, that this is sinful, and that it will not end well for her and possibly may hurt others (the wife and grown children of the other party for instance) . You already know that no faithful priest would tell her it’s all right to have an adulterous affair. You have done what a good Catholic and friend should do. Your friend, if she chooses to proceed, is headed for heartache and possibly losing her soul. You should not hold her hand while she does so.

 

[angell1]

make sure she knows you don’t condone her behaviour, which it sounds like you have already done so
also, 'god will understand and forgive me" is called the sin of presumption. yes, God is forgiving but only if we are truly repentant, we can’t use it with an attitude of “oh well, I can just commit this sin anyways and it’s not a big deal”

besides that, unfortunately there’s not much you can do, be there for her as a friend if you can but you won’t be able to change her. she is an adult and is responsible for her own decision. I know, it’s hard, to just stand by and watch it happen. but just pray for her, maybe she will come to a realization one day

 

[EasterJoy]

A divorced woman breaking up another marriage is not okay in anybody’s book, is it? I’m sure non-religious people would feel the same way.

Ask her what she would have felt if this happened to her a few years ago with another woman taking her husband.

Actually, I’d tell her how*** I ***would feel if ***my husband and I ***were going through a rough spot and she did something like this to me. People have become callous towards warnings that they are sinning, but some can still hear it when their friends tell them they are being self-centered jerks who ought to be ashamed of themselves.

If you put it in a personal way, she’ll be less likely to feel put out when you let her know that she is not the person you thought she was, and maybe it would be better to part ways. After all, you don’t do someone some big spiritual favor by acting as a friend when you actually feel this “friend” has squandered the esteem she once enjoyed and earned a very low opinion from you, but one that you only show in passive-aggressive ways.

As for “hating the sin and loving the sinner,” when a brother or sister won’t listen to what the Church teaches, treat them as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. A daughter of God, yes, but a member of the community of faith? Not so much. It is good to forgive the repentant abundantly, but keeping up the pretense that the sinner hasn’t sinned for the sake of leaving the unrepentant unmolested and under-admonished does them no good.

 

[CarrieH]

Thanks for your replies. I have tried to talk to Annie in practical terms re: “if he’ll do it with you, he’ll do it to you” and I mentioned to her that, while he was meeting her for their little reunion, he had lied to his wife about his whereabouts and activities. I asked her how she could ever trust someone who lies to his wife so he can sneak around with another woman. She has a grown daughter who is married, and I did mention “what if your son-in-law lied to your daughter so he could sneak around with his former girlfriend, what would you think of him?” She whines, “this is* different*.” Ummm, no it’s not, honey. SMH I truly believe that she is so desperate for “love” that she is blind to the extreme selfishness she is showing and to the possible consequences of her actions, both now and in eternity. I did mention the sin of presumption and of cooperation in the sin of another, but she just goes on with more rubbish about mercy and forgiveness. Maybe it is time to stop holding her hand, as PattiDay said, and let her reap what she sows. sigh God bless, CarrieH

 

[EasterJoy]

Thanks for your replies. I have tried to talk to Annie in practical terms re: “if he’ll do it with you, he’ll do it to you” and I mentioned to her that, while he was meeting her for their little reunion, he had lied to his wife about his whereabouts and activities. I asked her how she could ever trust someone who lies to his wife so he can sneak around with another woman. She has a grown daughter who is married, and I did mention “what if your son-in-law lied to your daughter so he could sneak around with his former girlfriend, what would you think of him?” She whines, “this is* different*.” Ummm, no it’s not, honey. SMH I truly believe that she is so desperate for “love” that she is blind to the extreme selfishness she is showing and to the possible consequences of her actions, both now and in eternity. I did mention the sin of presumption and of cooperation in the sin of another, but she just goes on with more rubbish about mercy and forgiveness. Maybe it is time to stop holding her hand, as PattiDay said, and let her reap what she sows. sigh God bless, CarrieH

Plant the seed, and when she brings up anything about this fellow, remind her again that he has no business flirting with other women while he is married and she certainly has no excuse for flirting with men who aren’t available.

Lean on that–he is unavailable. He may always be unavailable. The number of married men who throw pity parties for themselves in order to win the sympathy of gullible women are legion. They lead both the women on, they play with their affections, they cheat on their wives, and they imply and even promise things to their mistresses and then never follow through. Worse yet, the poor saps as often as not even make themselves miserable! Don’t wish that on an enemy!!

If nothing else, that’s a subject she won’t raise with you very often. That alone could solve your problem about how close to stick by her. Keep telling the truth, and she’ll set the distance herself. If she’s smart, she’ll stick with you and ditch old Mr. High School.

 

[CarrieH]

Plant the seed, and when she brings up anything about this fellow, remind her again that he has no business flirting with other women while he is married and she certainly has no excuse for flirting with men who aren’t available.
…

If nothing else, that’s a subject she won’t raise with you very often. That alone could solve your problem about how close to stick by her. Keep telling the truth, and she’ll set the distance herself. If she’s smart, she’ll stick with you and ditch old Mr. High School.

Oh, EasterJoy, I wish she would be smart! She thinks she’s “being smart” because she told him that she is not going to wait around forever for him to leave his wife. I told her that if she were really smart, she wouldn’t even be having that conversation with him, and she would be working on her annulment paperwork instead of spending all of her time texting with him. To make matters worse, Annie seems to have not one shred of compassion for Mr. HS’s wife. Maybe their marriage IS pretty much dead, but that’s not her business and I told her as much. Annie has already distanced herself from me a bit, and I think you’re right, if I keep gently telling her the truth, she will avoid me and then I won’t have to deal with her selfish drama. I will keep praying for her, though. Thanks for your wise counsel.

 

[underacloud]

I feel that I am walking a fine line between being a compassionate listener and actually condoning her actions. Basically, I feel like I’m watching a train-wreck about to happen, and all I can do is stand back and pray. Advice, anyone?

I wouldn’t be a compassionate listener at all! I would tell her point blank that you don’t want to discuss her immoral conduct and that your friendship can only exist outside of that area of her life.

That’s what I would do. Actually, I would be highly likely to distance myself from such a person completely. But that can be hard with close friends, and it is honourable that you want to be there for her when it all collapses.