From a frustrated RCIA Candidate

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Andruschak said:
Does anybody know of any Parish in the USA that respects RCIA candidates along the lines of

cin.org/users/james/files/how2.htm

and not lump them in with the unbaptized catechumans?
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Hi Andruschak 👋

What do you mean when you say lumped in? When I took RCIA two years ago, everyone (baptized & unbaptized) were in the class together. We were all pretty much taught the same thing and it wasn’t until the ceremony or whatever they called it that I even realized who was baptized & who wasn’t. Our classes were set up to be informative to everyone - some more than others because everyone’s level of knowledge was different.

What don’t you like about your class?
 
carol_marie said:
Hi Andruschak 👋

What do you mean when you say lumped in? When I took RCIA two years ago, everyone (baptized & unbaptized) were in the class together. We were all pretty much taught the same thing and it wasn’t until the ceremony or whatever they called it that I even realized who was baptized & who wasn’t. Our classes were set up to be informative to everyone - some more than others because everyone’s level of knowledge was different.

What don’t you like about your class?
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I would imagine that the poster, if sincere, objects to being dismissed after the homily with the catechumans. that is the only thing I can think of. Some parishes put the whole group together while others properly separate them into the appropriate groups of catechumans and candidates…I imagine the groups are put together for either financial or logistical concerns.
 
the solution is quite easy. In a parish that does dismiss catechumens for Breaking Open the Word, simply do what the rite prescribes, lead the catechumens to the meeting place for that portion of the session. Take a short break after Mass is over and welcome the candidates, then move on to the catechetical portion of the class.

Under no circumstances should the candidates participate in rites reserved for the unbaptized. The Rite is very clear on that point. However, there are combined rites for situations where both catechumens and candidates will be present, but in the explanation to the participants, sponsors and parish community the presider must make very clear the difference in the rites for each group, and the distinction between them. If the candidates in your parish are indeed participating in the identical rites such as rite of acceptance, scrutinies etc. with the catechumens, that is a real abuse and should be addressed in the usual way:
ask the director for an explanation, go to the pastor if that is unsatisfactory, and only then to the chancery.

there is no problem with everyone participating in the same class. those who are more mature in the faith, have already embraced the Gospel, are there not only for themselves, but to support others in the group as well. There is also, however, no reason to delay the reception into the Church of those Christians who are already living the Christian life and require only instruction in Catholic practice and doctrine. The whole class does not have to “graduate” together.

Please consider complying with the program as it is structured in your parish, and know that your own learning and spiritual progress will be advanced as you share what you have with those in the group who can benefit from what you bring.
 
carol_marie said:
Hi Andruschak 👋

What do you mean when you say lumped in? When I took RCIA two years ago, everyone (baptized & unbaptized) were in the class together. We were all pretty much taught the same thing and it wasn’t until the ceremony or whatever they called it that I even realized who was baptized & who wasn’t. Our classes were set up to be informative to everyone - some more than others because everyone’s level of knowledge was different.

What don’t you like about your class?
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His RCIA is probably being done the same way mine was…all of us attended class together, we all participated in the Rite of ACCEPTANCE (with no distinction made between the Catechumens and Candidates) all of us participated in the Scrutinies, ect. The only thing we didn’t do was the dismissal, because we didn’t dismiss anyone. To do that would require that all of us be at the same Mass on a weekly basis…and we quickly realized that wasn’t going to happen.
 
If I am going through a conditional baptism, am I considered a candidate (the baptized, right?) or a catechumen (the unbaptized?) for RCIA purposes?
 
puzzleannie said:
Please consider complying with the program as it is structured in your parish, and know that your own learning and spiritual progress will be advanced as you share what you have with those in the group who can benefit from what you bring.
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Do I have any choice? But what am I supposed to be learning? As a candidate, I thought I was to learn whatever was needed to be a proper Catholic. Nobody has asked me about what I do or do not know, what I need to learn, what spiritual direction and development I might need.

OK, OK, last Sunday we did learn that there was this nifty book called the bible, with a front cover and a back cover and some nifty stories in it.

Hmmmm…maybe there is a challenge here. Back in my Lutheran days I had no trouble naming all the books of the bible, in sequence, from memory. But now I have to relearn the sequence to accomidate the books the that martin Luther removed from the Protestent version of the Bible.
 
lel said:
If I am going through a conditional baptism, am I considered a candidate (the baptized, right?) or a catechumen (the unbaptized?) for RCIA purposes?
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I have no idea. EDIT The parish may not recognize as valid my first Baptism, a few days after I was born, from the Church Of England. When I was confirmed in thre Lutheran Church as a teenagr, I was baptised again. I guess they had doubts about the validity of a CoE baptism. I have decided to simply be baptised with the catechumans and not bother with that “conditional” stuff. Hopefully, third time will be the charm
 
puzzleannie said:
. There is also, however, no reason to delay the reception into the Church of those Christians who are already living the Christian life and require only instruction in Catholic practice and doctrine. The whole class does not have to “graduate” together.
.
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You might be surprised at how much I already know about Catholic practice and doctrine. But to date, nobody has bothered to ask me.
 
puzzleannie said:
the solution is quite easy. In a parish that does dismiss catechumens for Breaking Open the Word, simply do what the rite prescribes, lead the catechumens to the meeting place for that portion of the session. Take a short break after Mass is over and welcome the candidates, then move on to the catechetical portion of the class.
.
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  1. There have been no catechetical portions to date
  2. My schedule for the RCIA class EDIT in CA includes me in all the following, no exceptions
5 November, Rite Of Acceptance

7 January, Elem retreat for 1st reconciliation

25 February, Rite of Sending and Rite of Election

11 March 1st Scrutiny
18 March 2nd Scrutiny
23 Maarch 3rd Scrutiny

5-7 March, The easter Vigil
 
Andruschak said:
You might be surprised at how much I already know about Catholic practice and doctrine. But to date, nobody has bothered to ask me.
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I see your frustration as my finacee is going through the same thing.
Seems like they are teaching alot on externals (fluff) now instead of steak and potatos! :confused:
 
steve_green_2 said:
I see your frustration as my finacee is going through the same thing.
Seems like they are teaching alot on externals (fluff) now instead of steak and potatos! :confused:
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Indeed. I did a post over in the spirituality part of the forum. What does a guided meditation have to do with learning doctrine? But it seems a book is out titled GUIDED MEDITATION FOR CATECUMANS, and our facilitator likes to hear the sound of her voice
 
Hey, have some fun with it and bring a Baltimore Catechism (bout 1962, the better) to share in discussions. 😃

The Romal Missal of 1962 would be super too !!! 😛
 
steve_green_2 said:
Hey, have some fun with it and bring a Baltimore Catechism (bout 1962, the better) to share in discussions. 😃

The Romal Missal of 1962 would be super too !!! 😛
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That would be too obvious. I have a copy of the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, second edition, Libreria Editrice Vaticana. Perhaps I should bring that to the meeting next Sunday?:eek:
 
Andruschak said:
Do I have any choice? But what am I supposed to be learning? As a candidate, I thought I was to learn whatever was needed to be a proper Catholic. Nobody has asked me about what I do or do not know, what I need to learn, what spiritual direction and development I might need.

OK, OK, last Sunday we did learn that there was this nifty book called the bible, with a front cover and a back cover and some nifty stories in it.

Hmmmm…maybe there is a challenge here. Back in my Lutheran days I had no trouble naming all the books of the bible, in sequence, from memory. But now I have to relearn the sequence to accomidate the books the that martin Luther removed from the Protestent version of the Bible.
Click to expand...
It is actually required that CCD programs be scripturally based. That often means that doctrine and dogma take a distinct back seat to scripture reading and what is loosely termed conscience formation. Be that good or bad it is the way it is. I kind of think of it as an over reaction to the Baltimore Catechism, which was heavy on doctrine and dogma and relatively light on Scripture.

Recently, the past several years, there have been numerous complaints nationwide about people coming out of catechal programs not knowing the faith at all. In many areas things are changing to incorporate more doctrine into the programs and seeking a better balance in presenting the faith…

The problem is that few dioceses have a mandatory program and what is taught is usually left up to the individual parishes. So, some are very orthodox, some very liberal, some good, some bad and most average. Also remember that most DRE’s, Directors of Religious Education are very liberal minded and not anxious to return to more orthodox times.
 
My experience was somewhat different, coming from an Episcopalian background. I spoke with the Priest at my friend’s Church, we met twice, we had a long discussion about Catholic Faith (to be sure I knew what I was getting into!!), and the following Sunday I was received into the Church (at a Latin requiem mass of all things!).

If you’re concerned about the RCIA program not being right for you, I’d suggest speaking with the Priest. He may be able to find a more suitable way for you to enter the Church.
 
chris_molter said:
If you’re concerned about the RCIA program not being right for you, I’d suggest speaking with the Priest. He may be able to find a more suitable way for you to enter the Church.
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I have been trying to make an appointment with one of the 4 priests at this church, but they seem to be so busy
 
palmas85 said:
. The problem is that few dioceses have a mandatory program and what is taught is usually left up to the individual parishes. So, some are very orthodox, some very liberal, some good, some bad and most average. Also remember that most DRE’s, Directors of Religious Education are very liberal minded and not anxious to return to more orthodox times.
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Thanks be to God…literally…that I found www.catechismclass.com and their “Disciple” program for adult education
 
Andruschak said:
That would be too obvious. I have a copy of the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, second edition, Libreria Editrice Vaticana. Perhaps I should bring that to the meeting next Sunday?:eek:
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That’s not required to have at every class?

The more I hear, the more grateful I am for my parish! 👍
 
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