Frustrations

[seekingwithhope]

Background: I’m a practicing Catholic, dating a strong Prot. We frequently challenge each other. Currently amidst a big frustration that I’m not sure how to answer.

Her position: Trusts that God will not lead her astray. I ask her how you end up with so many denominations that all approach it in a similar manner. She doesn’t know. Further, she doesn’t really see Prot as being divided. Yes there are disagreements, even doctrinal disagreements, but we’re all saved and that’s what matters. We preach Christ crucified – why do we need more than this?
Why do we see such a need to bring people into the ‘one, true, church’? Why is it so important to be in the church that ‘Christ founded’? Her faith is epitomized by the leading of and trusting in the Spirit – Catholicism says this can’t be trusted. How do you talk to someone whose entire experience of faith is this?

There’s often a dichotomy presented of not looking at a church’s vibrancy, but at their doctrine – whether it’s true. Her response: Look for both. I don’t want to be in a church that claims the fullness of faith, but doesn’t practice it.
I personally feel stuck here because I don’t either and yet I understand the need to evangelize our own church. How do you talk to a Prot who sees the same issue? They’re not going to convert in order to evangelize Catholics.

Why go through all this debate when I’m confident and trust that I’m saved. Am I fully right? I don’t know. Do I have Christ? Yes. Am I saved – yes. Then why does it matter if I’m ‘fully right’? Am I more saved? Let’s stop arguing and preach Christ to all those who don’t know Him.

Why does it matter what church you’re in as long as they preach Christ and the gospel? What’s the point of all the doctrine/why does it matter (as long as we have Christ) when there are billions of people out there who don’t know Him and aren’t saved?

 

[DAML72]

I’m not sure if you are asking for backup for your position or if you are starting to come over to her side, but nevertheless I’ll share my thoughts with you.

I was raised Protestant. My church was in the Calvinist line of Protestantism. I won’t get into specifics on theology, but there is a background of ‘Once saved, always saved’ I won’t say that this was drummed into me in my confirmation classes, and of course I was taught about sin, but in my particular church, mercy, love, and compassion were the over-riding messages. Whatever the church’s positions on divorce and marriage and abortion were, they were not conveyed to me. While I know, looking back, that there may have been private admonishments to people going through divorce, divorce and remarriage, as a rule, didn’t seem to be a big deal. (In my family, divorce was rare, but I didn’t have a concept of what the Church taught, if anything, about marriage.) There was no formal teaching, either, with regard to premarital sex or adultery, etc. But of course there was nothing that couldn’t be forgiven. And there was no concept of a mortal sin that could cut off one’s relationship with God.

So, fast forward 10-15 years and I’ve cohabitated with my boyfriend who does not have a faith background, we’ve gotten married, had two kids, and I’m not attending church. I want to have my youngest baptized, but am 5 hours away from my home church where one of the elders gave me a hard time about having my first child baptized because I didn’t have a church where we were living. I lived in a place where my home church is not represented, so I had to go shopping, yet again, for a church. I ended up in a United Church of Christ church, where the slogan is ‘God is still speaking’ and the scripture is being re-interpreted to offer NO obstacles to gay marriage. Actually, to back up a bit, at the time my second child was born, I was going through a spiritual crisis. I went back to church mainly to establish a relationship where I could have her baptized. I started to feel closer to ‘God’, but I really wasn’t in a good place - didn’t necessarily believe in the crucifixion and resurrection, etc. A year later, my husband left, throwing me into total crisis.

None of this, so far, is necessarily unique to Protestants. There are many Catholics who drift away from the Church, go through spiritual crises, cohabitate, marry people outside their faith, etc. But what happened next is a crucial difference.

I reached for the bible for guidance, for help. And, as I read through it, the things I was reading were not adding up with what my faith experience had been. The teachings of Jesus that I was reading in the scriptures seemed at odds with how my church approached issues of marriage and sexuality. Here, Jesus was saying that when a man leaves his wife and she takes another, she is committing adultery. Hmm. I don’t remember ever hearing such a strong message about divorce from the church. And here I am in a church that approves of gay marriage to boot. Maybe scripture is just a guideline - a jumping off point. And if that’s the case, then what is the value of scripture? How do I know what the truth is? How do I know that Buddhism or Hinduism isn’t the truth? Maybe they are all just different ways of approaching one truth… Before I knew it, I had become ‘spiritual but not religious’ and making up my own rules as I went along. (And falling deeper and deeper into mortal sin)

Luckily, I was led back to God, and, subsequently, to the Truth that is contained within the Catholic Church - mainly because I spent many, many years trying to reconcile what I was experiencing spiritually and emotionally with what the secular world and many Protestant churches teach about divorce. The Holy Spirit finally nudged me in the direction of the Catholic Church as the answer.

I think that there are people like my parents - good Protestants who were brought up in a different time and were lucky to have found other people of faith, who probably have never experienced such an extreme test of faith and, for that reason will never see or understand why theology matters so much. But it is VERY important. Just think of all the people who have been turned off from Christianity because they were raised to fear God and eternal damnation and were never taught about the mercy of God.

Of, course, the sacraments are also vitally important. But it’s time for dinner - hopefully someone else will cover that.

 

[CalCatholic]

If you want a long relationship, don’t talk about religion together. You are both Christians who are set in yours ways. Agree to be different or find someone else. My wife was Catholic when we started dating and I was agnostic. We did not talk about religion (but I did agree to let our sons be baptized), and we have been married almost 36 years. Oh by the way I also became Catholic almost 10 years ago, but it was wasn’t because she kept asking me, she never once asked me to become Catholic.

Now if your relationship continues and you have children together, that could pose problems about which church they would be baptized in and which church you would attend as a family.

 

[1ke]

Well let’s start with the fact that once saved, always saved is a heresy.

 

[ynotzap]

Yes recognizing Jesus as the Savior and Redeemer and accepting Him and receiving His Spirit is the right path. There is the walk with Jesus that leads to more spiritual maturity and greater union with Him. Being baptized in Jesus, we are spiritual infants. made adopted children of God, we are not spiritual adults. It takes nourishment to grow spiritually. this is supplied by growing in grace and truth. It is supplied by those gifts that Jesus gave us in the Sacraments. Being humans we are weak in so many ways. Jesus covers those bases, in His love for us. Life as we know it is filled with challenges to our faith, and we need continual spiritual strength to succeed. Being converted to Christ, being saved is the right beginning, but it is not the fullness of truth that will be found in the Catholic Church concerning our salvation and happiness, which can be partly attained in this life, and completely attained in the next. We must accept the full gospel of Christ and not just one part. You can back-slide as some say,even if you accept Jesus. Once saved does not mean always saved, you must keep the faith, and run the race with the grace that God provides for us through His Church. He guaranteed that He will guide it and sustain it inspite of human scandal.

 

[ynotzap]

Daml72 Great post:thumbsup: