Full of grace?

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blackfish152

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Can some greek expert or a knowledable lay man/woman please draw out some linguistic nuances for me with respect to the following passages;

john 1.14 christ is “full of grace”

acts 6:8 Stephen is “full of grace”

and of course Mary is “full of grace” luke 1.

in what way do these 3 differ/compare in being full of grace?

(I am sure there may be more “full of graces” in the NT if I searched a concordance, but these 3 came to me-recently so I thought I must ask the question.

Thanks in advance, and God bless everyone who reads this.

M.
 
John 1:14 & Acts 6:8 use charitos. Lk. 1:28 uses kecharitomene. Luke is using a past perfect participle of charis which means it happened in the past, it happened perfectly, and is continuing in a permanent form.

Jimmy Akin addressed this on his blog: jimmyakin.org/2005/10/kecharitomene_q.html
 
This is something you can learn to check for yourself by using Strong’s Concordance online. 👍

blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/5/1135722153-1721.html
Luk 1:30 And 2532 the angel 32 said 2036 unto her 846, Fear 5399 not 3361, Mary 3137: for 1063 thou hast found 2147 favour 5485 with 3844 God 2316.
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Jhn 1:14 And 2532 the Word 3056 was made 1096 flesh 4561, and 2532 dwelt 4637 among 1722 us 2254, (and 2532 we beheld 2300 his 846 glory 1391, the glory 1391 as 5613 of the only begotten 3439 of 3844 the Father 3962,) full 4134 of grace 5485 and 2532 truth 225.
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For Acts 6:8 see,
blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1135722489-9801.html#8

For Luke 1:28 see,
blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1135722616-3372.html#28
 
Remember a word or phrase gets its meaning from how it is used in the immediate context. Not how it is used elsewhere.
 
I have found that in order to settle the debate concerning this translation from the Greek ‘*kecharitomene,’ since different Greek ‘scholars’ say different things, is to go to the ancient versions that have been translated from it, such as the Aramaic Peshitta and the Latin Vulgate. St. Jerome in 400AD, who was one of the greatest translators of all time translated *’*kecharitomene’ into ‘*gratia plena ’ which is literally ‘full of grace’. The Aramaic Peshitta in the turn of the 4th and 5th century translated it into ‘Maliath taibootho’ which is literally full of grace’ in Aramaic. I find it hard to imagine that some ‘scholars’ today would know more about it in the 21st century and how it should be rendered then the ancients who spoke the langauge in their day.
 
translations can be wrong or completely miss the meaning and do not equal the force or value of the orginal language.
 
charitoo is used three times in scripture, once in luke and twice in Eph.

Luk 1:28 And 2532 the angel 32 came in 1525 unto 4314 her 846, and said 2036 , Hail 5463 , [thou that art] highly favoured 5487 , the Lord 2962 [is] with 3326 thee 4675: blessed 2127 [art] thou 4771 among 1722 women 1135.
Eph 1:6 To 1519 the praise 1868 of the glory 1391 of his 846 grace 5485, wherein 1722 3739 he hath made 5487 0 us 2248 accepted 5487 in 1722 the beloved 25 .

charitoo {khar-ee-to’-o}

TDNT Reference Root Word
TDNT - 9:372,1298 from 5485
Part of Speech
v
Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. to make graceful
a) charming, lovely, agreeable
  1. to peruse with grace, compass with favour
  2. to honour with blessings
blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/5/1135809411-6465.html
 
The problem is that the phrase “full of grace” (or any of the options we see in other Bible translations) is not adequate to carry the full import of the word kekharitómene. An accurate translation would require a full clause, something on the order of “you who have been graced in the past and for whom the condition of being graced continues into the present.”

Try fitting that into your Rosary prayers! :eek:

DaveBj
 
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copland:
I have found that in order to settle the debate concerning this translation from the Greek ‘*kecharitomene,’ since different Greek ‘scholars’ say different things, is to go to the ancient versions that have been translated from it, such as the Aramaic Peshitta and the Latin Vulgate. St. Jerome in 400AD, who was one of the greatest translators of all time translated *’*kecharitomene’ into ‘*gratia plena ’ which is literally ‘full of grace’. The Aramaic Peshitta in the turn of the 4th and 5th century translated it into ‘Maliath taibootho’ which is literally full of grace’ in Aramaic. I find it hard to imagine that some ‘scholars’ today would know more about it in the 21st century and how it should be rendered than the ancients who spoke the langauge in their day.
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Copland,

GREAT RESPONSE!!

The Latin Vulgate is more than “just another translation”; far from it. This was THE Bible that was preserved by the monks of Western Europe throughout the Dark and Middle Ages, when Greek and Hebrew scholars were few and far between, to say nothing of the state of those original language manuscripts.
 
Hi Manfred it is really a poor response because I never argued that Luke does not mean “full of grace” and does not at all respond to my coments.

ROFL

And, the verb action significally changes in those translations.
 
Daniel Marsh:
Hi Manfred it is really a poor response because I never argued that Luke does not mean “full of grace” and does not at all respond to my coments.

ROFL

And, the verb action significally changes in those translations.
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Daniel, your comments gave me the impression that you thought “full of grace” was not what is contained in the Greek. Citing entries from the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament and possibly from Strong’s Concordance, which is keyed to either the KJV or NASV, would hardly convince me of the intended meaning of a Greek word.

I support Copland’s statement: the meaning from the Vulgate or the Peshitta carries considerable weight because of their closer proximity to the “original”.

Your last line above is also unclear. :confused:

Sorry. 😦
 
No problem manfred, basically, in the greek the verb has the action of recieving grace as ongoing, but started sometime in the past. The verbs in the other translations have the verb as simply temporary happening in the present, now without any ongoing action of grace. My point in Eph 1:6 is that us believers also get that grace that started at some point and is ongoing too.

I was simply showing someone, I forget who how to check these things for themselves using strong’s concordance.
 
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anawim:
John 1:14 & Acts 6:8 use charitos. Lk. 1:28 uses kecharitomene. Luke is using a past perfect participle of charis which means it happened in the past, it happened perfectly, and is continuing in a permanent form.

Jimmy Akin addressed this on his blog: jimmyakin.org/2005/10/kecharitomene_q.html
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Daniel,

I will lighten up a bit after having re-visited and re-read both the message and the link above.
 
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