fun way to teach God exists to CCD?

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Hello

I’m going to try and teach ways to prove God exists to 5th graders using argument from design and first cause. I was wondering if anyone had any bright ideas as to how to make it more interactive and enjoyable rather than just me talking at them and gesticulating.

Some half-baked ideas:
  • card trick - they intuitively know that there is a rational explanation for what they saw and the card didn’t just come out of nowhere and must have come from somewhere … somehow relate this to first cause
  • play hot potato / telephone … something that gets across that someone must have started the entire chain
  • show increasingly complex objects … pile of rocks → neatly stacked rocks → water bottle → human eyeball … and something something something
  • groups of 4; 3 randomly say letters while 1 writes them, see how many words they can spell … next, actually try to spell words and point out difference was intelligence
anything else???
 
Your post is interesting. But in all honesty, I would urge you not to attempt to prove the existence of God by using vain human tricks. Even though they are 5th graders, they may have more clout explaining God to you than you do them. You would be surprised at what they will say, and there idea of Him. It can be both educating for us ourselves and very sweet in description. Your methodology sounds like the kind of process that would attempt to explain “intelligent design” and not the idea of what or who God is. You may find that the simplest observation will produce the greatest understanding. Your attempting to do that which every person who believes in God has attempted, and often failed miserably. We must remember that a child truly see God, but we as adults tend to form Him as we want, according to our life experiences. It is deeply psychological and spiritual.

to be more realistic and to offer a concrete example that will always be of great use, I would suggest using biblical accounts. Use the accounts that the children would be most familiar with. Use accounts that show both how loving God is and how He takes care of all things in the Universe. I know that is really not an answer, as it would seem you have been given a very difficult and responsible task. I always found the best method was to show them the very world around them. The wonders of the sky lends a great teaching aid, particularly if they can see the vastness of the Universe and your really will get questions. A trip to an observatory would be an idea. The creation of life itself would present problems for the young student, I am sure, as they are only 5th graders. I am aware of the many restrictions that would hamper your progress and I am assuming you are working with parochial school children. I commend your effort and wish you blessings.
 
I’m making the dichotomy between revelation and reason so I will be covering the biblical accounts. I want them to have had some exposure to the fact that it is not unreasonable to believe in God and He can be proven using human reason.
 
Tartini said:
Your post is interesting. But in all honesty, I would urge you not to attempt to prove the existence of God by using vain human tricks. Even though they are 5th graders, they may have more clout explaining God to you than you do them. You would be surprised at what they will say, and there idea of Him. It can be both educating for us ourselves and very sweet in description. Your methodology sounds like the kind of process that would attempt to explain “intelligent design” and not the idea of what or who God is. You may find that the simplest observation will produce the greatest understanding. Your attempting to do that which every person who believes in God has attempted, and often failed miserably. We must remember that a child truly see God, but we as adults tend to form Him as we want, according to our life experiences. It is deeply psychological and spiritual.

to be more realistic and to offer a concrete example that will always be of great use, I would suggest using biblical accounts. Use the accounts that the children would be most familiar with. Use accounts that show both how loving God is and how He takes care of all things in the Universe. I know that is really not an answer, as it would seem you have been given a very difficult and responsible task. I always found the best method was to show them the very world around them. The wonders of the sky lends a great teaching aid, particularly if they can see the vastness of the Universe and your really will get questions. A trip to an observatory would be an idea. The creation of life itself would present problems for the young student, I am sure, as they are only 5th graders. I am aware of the many restrictions that would hamper your progress and I am assuming you are working with parochial school children. I commend your effort and wish you blessings.
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What restrictions? Is it illegal or something? How would the creation of life by a problem for young students? I guess it’s just the way I’m trying to structure the semester logically. Why was man created? → Who / What is God? / Trinity → How can we know God? → revelation and reason → angels → fall of man → etc… I don’t want to pay lip service to reason and be like “oh yeah, we can know God using reason, now moving along …”. I just find that to be unsatisfying. I understand we can use the vastness of the universe / scripture examples to get an idea of who God is (i.e. all-powerful, knowing, present etc.) but that is a separate topic. Is it just a bad idea in general to try getting into abstract thinking with 5th graders? Their 4th grader teacher boasted how smart they were and I wanted to take her up on the challenge.
 
I should have been more clear about what is “illegal”, sorry for the misunderstanding. Well, I think if you were doing what you are doing in a public school, than, yes, technically it would find many opponents and invite numerous lawsuits as a teacher.

As for the creation of life–bluntly put, I mean talking about sex and creation processes. A little too much for them at that age, but I have always believed they are ready to understand those things around the age of 7 or even earlier, but that is only my personal opinion as an educator. I personally believe this to be the absolute evidence of the existence of God. The “intelligent design” term is just secular compromising to make secularists and worried modernists happy.

I cannot fully understand your dilemma in a teaching plan here. In a public situation, one would have to follow what the powers that be dictate. Don’t they have an outline as to how to go about your subject matter, as it relates to the young mind ? What role is there in the school administration. Will you have a priest helping you?

Bear in mind your goal: Your attempting to explain to 5th graders the fact that it is not unreasonable to believe in God and** He can be proven** using human reason. I have personally argued this point with college professors, and had no luck. I don’t believe you will find the 5th graders in opposition to what you say, as I hope they are already aware of the existence of God by that phase in life. The age of reason and level of reasoning skills as individuals can be varied in that age group.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your goal, but I would hope it is not a purely competitive one, particularly using such a profound question as you pose. If it is a real contest of “smarts” you want, include in the regimen of the semester a writing contest where the student can express their ideas in words. Look for tell-tell signs by the very nature of their writing skills and you will see who the smarter group is. You do a noble double duty when you correct grammatical errors or even ideas that contradict Catholic teaching. One learns more by reading what is on a students mind, than what comes out of their mouths. This approach is sound, educational, analytical and allows for developing communications skills that will certainly be a blessing in the future. We are seeing a terrible decrease in solid writing skills today. It seems that if one can write a line or two in Facebook, they are hailed as genius, but give someone a long document to read and they whine. Ideas (and how to communicate them well) themselves are dead, as people are less inspired to write anything worth reading due to the very lack of inspiration that exists.

Communication skills are paramount when one even begins to discuss the nature of God. Remember, you are tackling a subject that the greatest of Catholic Doctors and philosophical thinkers have been working on since the beginning. They use words and certain evidence, but still there remain some who are avowed atheists.

I would be very interested in reading an essay by yourself that would give me a clearer idea of your personal idea of God, then you could take it to others to consider and contribute to it. This will establish a better communication to your young ones, but like I said, you may be very pleasantly surprised at some of the answers you will receive on many questions put to them. You will learn more by their questions they they will of yours. I am anxious to see your progress, as your task is profoundly interesting to me.
 
Tartini said:
I should have been more clear about what is “illegal”, sorry for the misunderstanding. Well, I think if you were doing what you are doing in a public school, than, yes, technically it would find many opponents and invite numerous lawsuits as a teacher.
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I’ll be teaching at a Catholic church so there shouldn’t be any legal problems. It is not a public school, nor is it a private school. I’m not a professional educator, only a volunteer teaching once a week on Sundays.
Tartini said:
As for the creation of life–bluntly put, I mean talking about sex and creation processes. A little too much for them at that age, but I have always believed they are ready to understand those things around the age of 7 or even earlier, but that is only my personal opinion as an educator. I personally believe this to be the absolute evidence of the existence of God. The “intelligent design” term is just secular compromising to make secularists and worried modernists happy.
Click to expand...
I don’t plan on delving into sex or the creation process at all. I was going to pose some questions and help them to understand at a basic level the arguments for God’s existence.
Tartini said:
I cannot fully understand your dilemma in a teaching plan here. In a public situation, one would have to follow what the powers that be dictate. Don’t they have an outline as to how to go about your subject matter, as it relates to the young mind ? What role is there in the school administration. Will you have a priest helping you?
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Our CCD program is entirely volunteer run and I don’t believe any of the teachers are professional educators. We’re pretty much on our own in coming up with lesson plans. I’m using the “Faith and Life” series as a guideline to set my own syllabus.
Tartini said:
Bear in mind your goal: Your attempting to explain to 5th graders the fact that it is not unreasonable to believe in God and** He can be proven** using human reason. I have personally argued this point with college professors, and had no luck. I don’t believe you will find the 5th graders in opposition to what you say, as I hope they are already aware of the existence of God by that phase in life. The age of reason and level of reasoning skills as individuals can be varied in that age group.
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Of course they probably already accept by faith that God is real and He exists. I think I’m hoping to strengthen that existing faith by giving additional rationales grounded in reason.
Tartini said:
Maybe I am misunderstanding your goal, but I would hope it is not a purely competitive one, particularly using such a profound question as you pose. If it is a real contest of “smarts” you want, include in the regimen of the semester a writing contest where the student can express their ideas in words. …
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I forgot to use my emoticons. It was meant to be a joke when I said the kids were really smart. I don’t plan on having them write essays. I want to give them additional rationales to accept that God exists and is real. This also provides some symmetry because on the topic of revelation, I can teach about Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. On reason, I can teach them some proofs that allow them to approach God without the benefit of revelation. I’m not hoping to convert the entire world, just educate some kids as competently as possible.
Tartini said:
Communication skills are paramount when one even begins to discuss the nature of God. Remember, you are tackling a subject that the greatest of Catholic Doctors and philosophical thinkers have been working on since the beginning. They use words and certain evidence, but still there remain some who are avowed atheists.

I would be very interested in reading an essay by yourself that would give me a clearer idea of your personal idea of God, then you could take it to others to consider and contribute to it. This will establish a better communication to your young ones, but like I said, you may be very pleasantly surprised at some of the answers you will receive on many questions put to them. You will learn more by their questions they they will of yours. I am anxious to see your progress, as your task is profoundly interesting to me.
Click to expand...
Argument from design
1st premise: design implies a designer
2nd premise: there is design in the universe
Thus, there is a universal designer, and this is God

Argument from first cause
1st premise: all things depend on something else to exist
2nd premise: this dependency cannot go on forever
Thus, there must be something that does not depend on something else, and this is God

This is about as simple as I could make it. I was planning on exploring each premise and illustrating it with some activity or anecdote in order to approach the conclusion that there must exist some transcendent being.

With regards to who / what God is, I had a separately planned class on the Trinity, the nature / characteristics of God etc. This would be more a discussion as to what they thought about God and who He was etc. I thought that it was a separate topic from whether or not there is a God.

Maybe I’m being far too ambitious in wanting to convey this to 5th graders and overreaching myself. In the “Faith and Life” books for 5th grade, one of the chapters covers Aquinas’s proofs for God’s existence (although not in much detail) so I thought that this subject matter would be appropriate. In any case, your help is greatly appreciated.
 
Hi,

First, let me wish you luck in your endeavor - my experience with fifth graders in general is that they are starting to see the world in black and white and are beginning to develop skepticism.

Check out Lee Strobel’s book “The Case for Christ”. He starts with the historical proof for Jesus, establishes the bible is an accurate ancient text, links the historical Jesus to the bible and come to three conclusions - Jesus is insane, Jesus is a liar, or Jesus is the Son of God. He uses logic and the martyrdom of people spreading the Word to dismiss the first two conclusions leaving the only conclusion that Jesus is the Son of God. From there you can work back to knowing that God exists through Jesus his son.

When you do present the topic, set up a situational discussion with props - physical items or pictures - and get them to make their own conclusion about God’s existence.

Keep in mind that you’ll be immediately opening the “If there is a God, then why does He let war, terrorism, natural disasters, sickness, car accidents, etc etc happen?” discussion so be prepared to handle that one with a follow up discussion. Some kids may observe that “I don’t want to believe in a God that…” You can very effectively witness on Love and Free-will and that our eye’s should be on heaven not what feels good now. You can also bring up “loving parent’s give kids what they need not what they want” and “God isn’t Santa”

Sounds like an exciting year in CCD. God Bless you and your class.
 
Ok, Juggernaut. Looks and sounds like you have a great plan. It is a wonderful thing you do for the children, and hopefully they will go out into the world and do the same for others. God Bless you and the children.

By the way, don’t forget to leave art and music out of the demonstration. The creative ideal is present in beautiful art and music, which are (in my humble opinion) actual thoughts of God Himself… we are only the tool in which He uses to bring them into being. He creates music all the time, using birds, ocean waves, air, thunder and sometime a light show to go with the concert.:D:harp:
 
ty ty. oh, another idea:
  • give kids a grab bag of stuff (e.g. pencils, rubber chicken, marbles) and have them plot out the contingencies as far back as they can go
  • brainstorm to try and think of something that doesn’t depend on anything else to exist
 
I teach 6th grade CCD and I’ve always felt it was important to approach this subject early in the school year to show that God exists. My best approach has been to show them miracles that can only really be explained by Catholics, thus the introduction to the incorruptible saints. Showing pictures of the Incorruptible Saints as seen today and asking them how old they think the bodies are based on the picture usually raises a few eyebrows. Throughout the year, I’ll pick an incorruptible saint to talk about their wonderful virtues that we all should strive for and tell them that we could see their body today even though they may have died over a hundred plus years. Boys seem to like the story of St Janarius since that only a head that periodically bleeds when brought out.

Then I go through the different ways that we all experience God’s presence. Whether it’s through scriptures, at Church, nature, through other people, through life experiences, music or whatever. I tell the kids that there isn’t any right or wrong answer but to have them raise or lower their hand to whatever level that they experience God. It’s a good way to figure out how to best communicate with your class and individual students. They also appreciate that I definitely experience God differently than they do.

By the way, the typical top answers kids give in how they experience God is at Church and through scriptures. It gives me faith hope in our kids.
 
juggernaut said:
I’m going to try and teach ways to prove God exists to 5th graders using argument from design and first cause.
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Given the developmental stage 10 year olds are in intellectually, and their lack of well-developed abstract reasonsing ability, I don’t think this is a good idea at all.

In fact, I think it can be quite detrimental.
 
1ke said:
Given the developmental stage 10 year olds are in intellectually, and their lack of well-developed abstract reasonsing ability, I don’t think this is a good idea at all.

In fact, I think it can be quite detrimental.
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yeah, that was one thing was really worried about
 
blueadept said:
I teach 6th grade CCD and I’ve always felt it was important to approach this subject early in the school year to show that God exists. My best approach has been to show them miracles that can only really be explained by Catholics, thus the introduction to the incorruptible saints. Showing pictures of the Incorruptible Saints as seen today and asking them how old they think the bodies are based on the picture usually raises a few eyebrows. Throughout the year, I’ll pick an incorruptible saint to talk about their wonderful virtues that we all should strive for and tell them that we could see their body today even though they may have died over a hundred plus years. Boys seem to like the story of St Janarius since that only a head that periodically bleeds when brought out.

Then I go through the different ways that we all experience God’s presence. Whether it’s through scriptures, at Church, nature, through other people, through life experiences, music or whatever. I tell the kids that there isn’t any right or wrong answer but to have them raise or lower their hand to whatever level that they experience God. It’s a good way to figure out how to best communicate with your class and individual students. They also appreciate that I definitely experience God differently than they do.

By the way, the typical top answers kids give in how they experience God is at Church and through scriptures. It gives me faith hope in our kids.
Click to expand...
I kinda like this idea … I’ll have to toy around with it more. I think I will drop the idea of trying to teach logical proofs for God … too abstract. Thanks for all your help.
 
juggernaut said:
Hello

I’m going to try and teach ways to prove God exists to 5th graders using argument from design and first cause. I was wondering if anyone had any bright ideas as to how to make it more interactive and enjoyable rather than just me talking at them and gesticulating.

Some half-baked ideas:
  • card trick - they intuitively know that there is a rational explanation for what they saw and the card didn’t just come out of nowhere and must have come from somewhere … somehow relate this to first cause
  • play hot potato / telephone … something that gets across that someone must have started the entire chain
  • show increasingly complex objects … pile of rocks → neatly stacked rocks → water bottle → human eyeball … and something something something
  • groups of 4; 3 randomly say letters while 1 writes them, see how many words they can spell … next, actually try to spell words and point out difference was intelligence
anything else???
Click to expand...
I love your enthusiasm! I taught 9th grade CCD for 7 years. When I taught the Creed, I would ask: How do you know Russia exists? They would give me all their answers and reasons why and I would say: But you haven’t actually been there, right? From there, you could go off into whatever direction you want. I haven’t looked up how to answer your question in this book but Father Spirago’s Anecdotes on the Catechism may have an idea or 2: books.google.com/books?id=AuwPAAAAYAAJ&dq=spirago+Catechism&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=kX0hXDwC3l&sig=LJ6WFmjTS5XJCsNOHK9-Z6MoCHs&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#v=onepage&q&f=false
This book was written 100 years ago. Some of the stories are a little dated but still very good.
 
juggernaut said:
I’m making the dichotomy between revelation and reason so I will be covering the biblical accounts.
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Is this part of the Grade 5 Curriculum? It seems a bit young, to be introducing the idea that you can doubt the existence of God, or that an answer might need to be made, to such an idea.

It would be better, I think, to proceed from the unquestioned assumption that, of course God exists, and discuss their and your experiences of Him. Maybe go on a God-hunt - think of times when your prayers were answered - God was there. Look for things in nature that God left for us to find, and that sort of thing. 🙂
I want them to have had some exposure to the fact that it is not unreasonable to believe in God and He can be proven using human reason.
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Grade 5s believe in God. It would not occur to them that it is unreasonable to do so; in fact, they probably cannot imagine anyone not believing in God. 😃
 
I’m teaching fourth grade this year, taught 5th last. I felt it was important to introduce the question of “Do you really believe there is a God” . You’ll notice at that young age you already have your doubters. Trying to rationalize the existence of God with religion is probably the poorest form of reason. You should emphasize that belief is a personal choice. They will never find “proof” of God’s existence in the textbooks, it is a personal journey that you feel with your heart. If we could prove he exists there wouldn’t be a disbeliever on Earth - it would be like the last guy who believes the planets and sun revolve around the Earth to doubt.
Salient points to bring up are that
Doubt is normal, all people doubt, even priests
To know God you must seek him, the more you seek the more you find
Anger and disappointment is normal, God is not a magician or Santa Clause that gives us everything we want.
The ONLY thing God promised us is his love and life after death, the rest is up to us.

You might want to use the planets example and explain a long time ago people believed the sun revolved around the Earth. Ask questions about if someone said the sun revolved around the Earth today, what would people think about them? What did people think about those who said the Earth revolved around the sun long ago? Show them that sometimes people have faith only, to sustain their belief, and their own “proof” that no one else believes in. Some day those people will be proven right and others proven wrong. They, however, didn’t lose heart and you shouldn’t either, even though others will try to prove you wrong with their proof. It’s OK to have your own proof and feelings, they are valid.
 
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