Fundamentalist dad as gatekeeper

[montanaman]

I’ve got one of those situational problems that I suppose most of us would pray for…

Short version: I’m dating a very devout Protestant girl. She and I have had thoughts about each other for about two years, but didn’t officially begin dating until the end of July. Things are great–we strengthen each other, we care deeply for each other and we’re of a like mind on the important things. (I’m NOT saying things like “The Communion of Saints aren’t all that important…”) She’s beautiful, passionate but chaste, and far exceeds everything on the “checklist” that I could theoretically want. (Except for being Catholic.)

My question involves the parental situation. Dad is very protective. He requires that not only do men talk to him first about asking his daughters to marry them, (in a family of seven children, five are girls), but also to court them. I haven’t talked to dad about this yet, and we’ve been dating for nearly two months now. Should I be “honoring HER father and mother?”

The realistic part of me says “no.” After all, our relationship is one most parents would give an arm for their children to have. There’s no sex–in fact, I have reservations about kissing her for too long, as does she. We’ve prayed together, I’ve gone to her church, (and she knows without a doubt I’ll never convert), and today she went to Mass with me and thought it was beautiful. Our first date ended in the garden of a monastery.

But, she “confessed” to her parents tonight that there’s something between us. (I met them yesterday–dad even gave me the “are you saved?” pitch for an hour. I was tired, but held my own). The parents liked me, but they’re mad at her for her “deception.” They say they like me just fine, though I suspect they’re using her “deception” as a means of keeping her from the evil Catholic.

So, what role do I play in this? If she decides to “defy” her parents, am I contributing to her “sin” by continuing to see her? I wouldn’t think so–she’s 26, I’m 30. We’re adults, for the love of Pete!

I’m talking to dad later this week if he’ll agree to it. Right now he’s praying on it. I’ll also be praying for humility, because first of all I want to slap the guy around for doubting my sincerity or devotion to Christ, and also because his daughter is 26 and I’ve given them ZERO reason to suspect my intentions…

So, what do y’all think?

 

[AlanFromWichita]

montanaman:

today she went to Mass with me and thought it was beautiful. Our first date ended in the garden of a monastery.

Any chance she will convert?

So, what role do I play in this? If she decides to “defy” her parents, am I contributing to her “sin” by continuing to see her? I wouldn’t think so–she’s 26, I’m 30. We’re adults, for the love of Pete!

Does she live with her parents? At her age I would think it is her responsibility to decide if she needs her father’s consent, but it sound like she either has decided or doesn’t feel she has a choice – especially if she lives with them.

I’m talking to dad later this week if he’ll agree to it. Right now he’s praying on it. I’ll also be praying for humility, because first of all I want to slap the guy around for doubting my sincerity or devotion to Christ, and also because his daughter is 26 and I’ve given them ZERO reason to suspect my intentions…

I have three daughters, and I wish to give you some help in finding your “humility.”

First, you asked if you should honor her father and mother; I say yes. She’s old enough to make her own decisions, but it sounds like her relationship with her father is important. Now if she is simply afraid of her father, that could be another story. If she is as close to him as it sounds like from your story, you will not gain anything with her by going against him.

Second, view him not as an obstacle, but as a blessing. The reason she is devout and wonderful and chaste at her age is that HE raised her that way. HE has helped to shape her into the beautiful woman she is and protected her thus far in her life. Not all fathers would or are even capable of doing that.

As far as doubting your sincerity, there could be several reasons but again realize that it is his looking out for his daughter that kept her safe thus far from guys who would say whatever they thought would “get by” dad. I suggest that the more he wants to talk to you, the better it is. You said you “held your own” but that could mean you felt like you were being attacked. Did you ask him questions and act truly interested in his religion? You can do that without having to give counterpoint to everything he says, but I don’t think it ever hurts to hear another person’s view about Christ. If he says things you doubt you do not have to “fix” him, just hold to your own faith whether or not you get a chance to verbalize it.

It sounds like this is a wonderful girl who comes from wonderful parents. If they seem to doubt you, just look at it as a “test” which will purify you for the honor of courting their daughter.

Alan

 

[Princess_Abby]

very well and gently put, alan.

montanaman–i would only add that keep in mind these parents could be your in-laws someday. for someone who is as attached as your girlfriend sounds, she clearly intends to keep her parents super-involved in her life–married or not. their approval is also very important to her, obviously…otherwise she wouldn’t have framed her relationship with you as something she needed to “confess,” but just to mention. (and the idea that a 26 year old needs to keep her parents abreast of every single date and/or two month “interaction” IS ridiculous!!!) anyway… just keep an objective mind and be aware that in marriage, a relationship needs to be autonomous. would your girlfriend want and/or need to consult her parents on every milestone? (not out of their stipulation, but out of her habit and needing their approval) Will they dictate when the two of you should become parents? If your children should be raised protestant or Catholic? What sort of schooling the children should have? When to purchase a home? How close to live to her parents…?

obviously i’m projecting far into the future, but my husband came from very controlling parents. NOT very devout parents, mind you, but they used my husband’s Catholicism and love of God to manipulate him mercilessly. PRAISE GOD that he eventually saw through the BS and broke free from the chains they attempted to hold over us. we went to counseling and are sooooo much happier and healthier now for being away from that sort of parental control. (we are both 24 and married a little over a year.) i often thank God that my husband WASN’T very attached to his parents–he was only in the habit of responding to their control and demands. once he kicked that, it was easy enough to remove them from our lives (on the advice of a Catholic marriage therapist). if he HAD been attached…getting him to let go of their controlling ways AND the relationship to them would have been next to impossible.

just be aware. parents can be a huge blessing in marriage (like mine) or a total nightmare (like my husband’s).

my two cents

 

[montanaman]

Thanks for both of your responses. Both were incredibly insightful. The point about realizing the father is responsible for helping to raise this wonderful girl is expecially good. You’re right–girls like her don’t happen by accident.

There will be some difficulties in the future–she has said she would never become Catholic, but that was in reference to fasting before Mass. I suspect she was just joking around, though I know she has serious reservations about Catholicism. On the other hand, I’ve dispelled numerous misconceptions she had, so there’s hope.

Our greatest difficulty will probably come when and if we start having marriage conversations. I only have two non-negotiable deal-breakers: Kids must be raised Catholic, and there will be no artificial birth control. I’m pretty sure she’d be open to the second thing, but I honestly don’t know how she’d feel about me raising the kids Catholic. She loves me, though, knows where my heart is, and HAS been raised to believe the man is the spiritual head of the family. I would hate to “pull rank,” but if I had to, I suspect she’d “submit” to that.

As far as dad goes, well, we’ll see. I see his concerns, and if I was the father of five girls, I’d probably never sleep. I’d be sitting by the front door with a shotgun most of the time. I’ll treat him with the respect he deserves, but I’ll be able to ignore his barely polite condescension for only so long. He’s not a rabid anti-Catholic, but he questions my sincerity and my salvation merely because of my church membership. That, and my girlfriend has told me he wouldn’t pay for a Catholic wedding.

Anyway, thanks again. This has already given me some perspective.

MM

 

[pnewton]

Since you just met the dad, it is way too early to expect him to have an informed opinion about you or your faith. I hope you made a postitive first impression, but now it is important to conitinue as a witness. Obvious the most powerful testimony you have is your own holiness, especially in relation to your daughter. Treat her as a princess and he will respect that.

At some point you will have to discuss the differences of faith with your girlfriend. It would be a good idea to be informed. I recommend three books for any one dealing with this:
Catholiicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating
Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic by David Currie
By What Authority by Mark Shea

This would be for your own understanding. I do not think it is necessary to acitvely try to convert either the girl or the father. If the are like most fundamentalist, then the discussion will come to you. I myself am a former Baptist and a father of a 17 year old girl.

God bless you in this relationship.