Gambling

[kalt]

What is your church’s or religion’s view on gambling? What is your personal view?

My church allows that gambling under control is OK. When it gets out of control, as when money needed for the family is spent at the casino or when a person becomes compelled to gamble, it is not OK.

I am of the same opinion, except that the only gambling I agree with is gambling that benefits a charity. A bingo or raffle to benefit the cancer society is fine, because you know that the money you lose is going to a good cause. What you are doing, really, is donating money and putting your name in a hat for a prize. You don’t expect a return on your “investment”. Though compulsive gamblers visit these charity events, too, probably thinking that there’s a better chance to win, it doesn’t invalidate the reason for the event. People don’t feel cheated when they walk away with nothing.

Lottery tickets are a sucker’s tax. Casinos, imo, should be banned. It’s legalized theft. People don’t generally buy lottery tickets or visit the casino thinking that their money is definitely gone. They go with the expectation that there is a decent chance to **make **money. No matter how slim the odds, they think they will be the one. “Someone has to win.” “You can’t win if you don’t play.” People feel cheated when they don’t win. When they do win, they tend to throw he money back in, as if priming the pump. No one loses money to the lottery (state) or a casino and feels good about it. Lottery tickets should called what they are, tax tickets. And casinos should have to disclose at the door how much they made in the previous week, and how much they paid out.

I can’t stand the lottery and the casinos. They make money on pathetic hope, delusions, and the addictive personality.

 

[1ke]

The Catholic Church teaches that gambling *can *be a sin against the Seventh Commandment (Stealing), although games of chance are not *inherently *evil:

2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

Gambling can be thought of as a form of entertainment if used properly. People think nothing of spending $100 to play golf for 4 hours. I personally like to play blackjack and have done very well at times and not so well at other times.

When I gamble, I only take what I can afford to lose and when it’s gone, I quit. I only go a few times a year) so I would say that I have it under control. I have discussed this with our priest and he says in that context it is acceptible.

However, if it becomes a lust for money, it is sinful. Not to mention the harm it can do to a person or family financially when not in control

The casino has only around a 1% advantage if blackjack if played properly, so there are many occasions that you can walk out ahead, but you WILL lose money in the long run. Probability theory says so. But when I consider the hours of entertainment, free hotel nights, and free drinks, it can be a great hobby.

I never understood slot machines. I put my money in, press the button a few times and it tells me if I won. $20 seems to evaporate in about 10 minutes and I’m left wondering if I was supposed to enjoy it. Consequently I rarely play those. But again - to each his own. If you enjoy it and only risk what you can afford to lose, it’s a form of entertainment.

 

[kalt]

Gambling can be thought of as a form of entertainment if used properly. People think nothing of spending $100 to play golf for 4 hours. I personally like to play blackjack and have done very well at times and not so well at other times.

When I gamble, I only take what I can afford to lose and when it’s gone, I quit. I only go a few times a year) so I would say that I have it under control. I have discussed this with our priest and he says in that context it is acceptible.

However, if it becomes a lust for money, it is sinful. Not to mention the harm it can do to a person or family financially when not in control

The casino has only around a 1% advantage if blackjack if played properly, so there are many occasions that you can walk out ahead, but you WILL lose money in the long run. Probability theory says so. But when I consider the hours of entertainment, free hotel nights, and free drinks, it can be a great hobby.

I never understood slot machines. I put my money in, press the button a few times and it tells me if I won. $20 seems to evaporate in about 10 minutes and I’m left wondering if I was supposed to enjoy it. Consequently I rarely play those. But again - to each his own. If you enjoy it and only risk what you can afford to lose, it’s a form of entertainment.

I’ve been to 2 casinos–in one day. A friend wanted me to go, so I did. At each place, the other people were NOT having a good time. They looked depressed, and one was obviously desperate and jealous that I had won. She jumped to the machine I was at, and looked at me angrily when she did win after a few coins. What a pathetic sight. One old lady was sleeping in one of the public areas!!

I agree with you. Without the hope of winning money, a slot machine can’t possibly be fun. I was bored the whole time, and walked away with my small winnings, never to return again.

Apparently, to get the free rooms, food, and gifts, you have to lose a lot at the same casino. I arrived with 20 bucks, walked out with 100, and never got invited to spend a free night there. And I’ve been waiting for 7 or 8 years to hear from them.

Free is never free at a casino.

Card games sound like fun, though. At least you have to know something to play. The better you play, the longer your money lasts. Even if you are smart enough to realize that you can’t win in the long-run, you can play to see how long it takes to lose your money. If it’s a card game that requires skill as well as luck, there is a mental challenge that’s worth it, so long as you aren’t spending a ton of money. Obviously, you could play these games at home without any money on the line, so there is still that hope of winning that’s really behind it. But, like you said, so long as it’s not compulsive it gets the .

 

[PhiJ]

As you are a catholic, I assume you want contributions from non-catholics.

My church has nothing to say on the matter, as far as I know (although if I asked the elders I’m sure we could have a reasonable length discussion). I agree with JohnMPhilomena and Kalt.

I always used to think gambling was wrong. Then I looked up arguments on the internet, and found ones that were based upon assuming that gambling is being stupid with your money. I’ve never found anyone giving a better argument than that. So I reckon if you’re doing it for fun, then fair enough, as long as you remember that it can be addictive, and are careful (both with your money, and to not be dependant on it). It is after all, by grace we are saved, not by observing laws made by man (do not gamble).

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

What is your church’s or religion’s view on gambling? What is your personal view?

My church allows that gambling under control is OK. When it gets out of control, as when money needed for the family is spent at the casino or when a person becomes compelled to gamble, it is not OK.

I am of the same opinion, except that the only gambling I agree with is gambling that benefits a charity. A bingo or raffle to benefit the cancer society is fine, because you know that the money you lose is going to a good cause. What you are doing, really, is donating money and putting your name in a hat for a prize. You don’t expect a return on your “investment”. Though compulsive gamblers visit these charity events, too, probably thinking that there’s a better chance to win, it doesn’t invalidate the reason for the event. People don’t feel cheated when they walk away with nothing.

Lottery tickets are a sucker’s tax. Casinos, imo, should be banned. It’s legalized theft. People don’t generally buy lottery tickets or visit the casino thinking that their money is definitely gone. They go with the expectation that there is a decent chance to **make **money. No matter how slim the odds, they think they will be the one. “Someone has to win.” “You can’t win if you don’t play.” People feel cheated when they don’t win. When they do win, they tend to throw he money back in, as if priming the pump. No one loses money to the lottery (state) or a casino and feels good about it. Lottery tickets should called what they are, tax tickets. And casinos should have to disclose at the door how much they made in the previous week, and how much they paid out.

I can’t stand the lottery and the casinos. They make money on pathetic hope, delusions, and the addictive personality.

I firmly believe that​

• it is immoral of its very nature
• & very bad stewardship of “our” property; which is not ours at all, but God’s
• therefore it is as worthy of a Christian as serial rape would be
• churches which rely on it might as well set up brothels, for all the moral difference it makes. That it is widespread is no defence whatever - so is AIDS; so are child abuse; racketeering; & similar delights - maybe it is significant that all these evils are well represented in certain strata of Catholicism
• money should be earned by honest work, not by games of chance; which raises very serious questions about the morality of the Stock Market, the taking of interest, & the use of both by Christians & Churches

You said what needs to be said

 

[JohnMPhilomena]

I firmly believe that​

• it is immoral of its very nature
• & very bad stewardship of “our” property; which is not ours at all, but God’s
• therefore it is as worthy of a Christian as serial rape would be
• churches which rely on it might as well set up brothels, for all the moral difference it makes. That it is widespread is no defence whatever - so is AIDS; so are child abuse; racketeering; & similar delights - maybe it is significant that all these evils are well represented in certain strata of Catholicism
• money should be earned by honest work, not by games of chance; which raises very serious questions about the morality of the Stock Market, the taking of interest, & the use of both by Christians & Churches

You said what needs to be said

Don’t hold back - Tell us what you really think!

 

[kalt]

I firmly believe that​

• it is immoral of its very nature
• & very bad stewardship of “our” property; which is not ours at all, but God’s
• therefore it is as worthy of a Christian as serial rape would be
• churches which rely on it might as well set up brothels, for all the moral difference it makes. That it is widespread is no defence whatever - so is AIDS; so are child abuse; racketeering; & similar delights - maybe it is significant that all these evils are well represented in certain strata of Catholicism
• money should be earned by honest work, not by games of chance; which raises very serious questions about the morality of the Stock Market, the taking of interest, & the use of both by Christians & Churches

You said what needs to be said

From opposite ends.

I have a problem with gambling, not because the person might make a profit from gambling, but because of the money he will lose in the long-run to unscrupulous casinos and states (lotteries). There is no way out. Go often enough and you will be a loser. I’m the only one I know who is ahead of the casino. I went. I won. I never went back.

The lotteries wouldn’t be a problem if the money were spent on what they said it would be - education - but no one seems to know what’s happened to that promise.

 

[JonNC]

What is your church’s or religion’s view on gambling? What is your personal view?

My church allows that gambling under control is OK. When it gets out of control, as when money needed for the family is spent at the casino or when a person becomes compelled to gamble, it is not OK.

I am of the same opinion, except that the only gambling I agree with is gambling that benefits a charity. A bingo or raffle to benefit the cancer society is fine, because you know that the money you lose is going to a good cause. What you are doing, really, is donating money and putting your name in a hat for a prize. You don’t expect a return on your “investment”. Though compulsive gamblers visit these charity events, too, probably thinking that there’s a better chance to win, it doesn’t invalidate the reason for the event. People don’t feel cheated when they walk away with nothing.

Lottery tickets are a sucker’s tax. Casinos, imo, should be banned. It’s legalized theft. People don’t generally buy lottery tickets or visit the casino thinking that their money is definitely gone. They go with the expectation that there is a decent chance to **make **money. No matter how slim the odds, they think they will be the one. “Someone has to win.” “You can’t win if you don’t play.” People feel cheated when they don’t win. When they do win, they tend to throw he money back in, as if priming the pump. No one loses money to the lottery (state) or a casino and feels good about it. Lottery tickets should called what they are, tax tickets. And casinos should have to disclose at the door how much they made in the previous week, and how much they paid out.

I can’t stand the lottery and the casinos. They make money on pathetic hope, delusions, and the addictive personality.

Hi kalt,
The LCMS says the following:

Q. What is the LCMS view of gambling?

A. In February 1996 our Synod’s Commission on Theology and Church Relations adopted a report titled “Gambling,” a 14-page document that discusses the practice of gambling in light of six scriptural principles. These principles are as follows:

Gambling encourages the sins of greed and covetousness.
Gambling promotes mismanagement of possessions entrusted to us by God.
Gambling undermines absolute reliance on God for His provision.
Gambling works at cross purposes with a commitment to productive work.
Gambling is a potentially addictive behavior.
Gambling threatens the welfare of our neighbor and militates against the common good.
The document stops short of saying that every form of gambling is in and of itself contrary to the Word of God and therefore sinful.

lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2130

Jon

 

[murtad]

The 11 Apostles gambled when they cast lots to select a successor to Judas the Traitor. The result of the gamble was Matthias, which God rejected as his 12th Apostle. God instead chose Saint Paul to the the 12th Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So, yes gambling is evil.

 

[JonNC]

From opposite ends.

I have a problem with gambling, not because the person might make a profit from gambling, but because of the money he will lose in the long-run to unscrupulous casinos and states (lotteries). There is no way out. Go often enough and you will be a loser. I’m the only one I know who is ahead of the casino. I went. I won. I never went back.

The lotteries wouldn’t be a problem if the money were spent on what they said it would be - education - but no one seems to know what’s happened to that promise.

That promise has gone the way of most government promises. For Americans, the healthcare promise is next. Talk about a gamble!!!

Jon

 

[Bill_Pick]

I’ve been to 2 casinos–in one day. A friend wanted me to go, so I did. At each place, the other people were NOT having a good time. They looked depressed, and one was obviously desperate and jealous that I had won. She jumped to the machine I was at, and looked at me angrily when she did win after a few coins. What a pathetic sight. One old lady was sleeping in one of the public areas!!

I agree with you. Without the hope of winning money, a slot machine can’t possibly be fun. I was bored the whole time, and walked away with my small winnings, never to return again.

Apparently, to get the free rooms, food, and gifts, you have to lose a lot at the same casino. I arrived with 20 bucks, walked out with 100, and never got invited to spend a free night there. And I’ve been waiting for 7 or 8 years to hear from them.

Free is never free at a casino.

Card games sound like fun, though. At least you have to know something to play. The better you play, the longer your money lasts. Even if you are smart enough to realize that you can’t win in the long-run, you can play to see how long it takes to lose your money. If it’s a card game that requires skill as well as luck, there is a mental challenge that’s worth it, so long as you aren’t spending a ton of money. Obviously, you could play these games at home without any money on the line, so there is still that hope of winning that’s really behind it. But, like you said, so long as it’s not compulsive it gets the .

Its not if you win or lose its how long you play,I go to Vegas 2 time a year and I never pay for a roam, I play black jack and if you know how to play I win 2 out of 3 times. set a limit and watch what you are doing and play no more then 3 hrs a day and you can win some money, my last trip I set down and won 1500 in the a hr, and did not play the next day and on my last day I lost 800$ so I make 700 for the trip and all my food and roams got paid very good trip,I take 1500 to gambl with each trip,3000 a year last year i wasa 1800 a head and did not spend any thing on food or roams, had a ball.

 

[O.S.Luke]

The United Methodist stance.

Gambling

The Social Principles state that, “Gambling is a menace to society, deadly to the best interests of moral, social, economic, and spiritual life, and destructive of good government. As an act of faith and concern, Christians should abstain from gambling and should strive to minister to those victimized by the practice. Where gambling has become addictive, the church will encourage such individuals to receive therapeutic assistance so that the individual’s energies may be redirected into positive and constructive ends. The church should promote standards and personal lifestyles that would make unnecessary and undesirable the resort to commercial gambling—including public lotteries—as a recreation, as an escape, or as a means of producing public revenue or funds for support of charities or government” (¶ 163G).

When asked which commandment is first of all, Jesus answered, “Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God, the Lord is one; you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength” (Mark 12:29-30). Gambling feeds on human greed and invites persons to place their trust in possessions rather than in God. It represents a form of idolatry that contradicts the first commandment. Jesus continued: “The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself’” (Mark 12:31). In relating with compassion to our sisters and brothers, we are called to resist those practices and systems that exploit them and leave them impoverished and demeaned. The apostle Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 6:9-10a: “People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.”

Gambling, as a means of acquiring material gain by chance and at the neighbor’s expense, is a menace to personal character and social morality. Gambling fosters greed and stimulates the fatalistic faith in chance. Organized and commercial gambling is a threat to business, breeds crime and poverty, and is destructive to the interests of good government. It encourages the belief that work is unimportant, that money can solve all our problems, and that greed is the norm for achievement. It serves as a “regressive tax” on those with lower income. In summary, gambling is bad economics; gambling is bad public policy; and gambling does not improve the quality of life.

We oppose the growing legalization and state promotion of gambling.

Dependence on gambling revenue has led many states to exploit the weakness of their own citizens, neglect the development of more equitable forms of taxation, and thereby further erode the citizens’ confidence in government.

We oppose the legalization of pari-mutuel betting, for it has been the opening wedge in the legalization of other forms of gambling within the states and has stimulated illegal bookmaking. We deplore the establishment of state lotteries and their use as a means of raising public revenues. The constant promotion and the wide advertising of lotteries have encouraged large numbers of persons to gamble for the first time.

We express an even more serious concern for the increasing development of the casino enterprise in the United States, for it has taken captive entire communities and has infiltrated many levels of government with its fiscal and political power.

Public apathy and a lack of awareness that petty gambling feeds organized crime have opened the door to the spread of numerous forms of legal and illegal gambling.

We support the strong enforcement of antigambling laws, the repeal of all laws that give gambling an acceptable and even advantageous place in our society, and the rehabilitation of compulsive gamblers.

The church has a key role in fostering responsible government and in developing health and moral maturity that free persons from dependence on damaging social customs. We urge national, tribal, state and local governments to read, analyze and implement the recommendations of the National Gambling Impact Study report released by the United States in 1999. It is expected that United Methodist churches abstain from the use of raffles, lotteries, bingo, door prizes, other drawing schemes, and games of chance for the purpose of gambling or fundraising. United Methodists should refrain from all forms of gambling practices carried on in our communities and should work to influence community organizations to develop forms of funding that do not depend upon gambling.

The General Board of Church and Society shall provide materials to local churches and annual conferences for study and action to combat gambling and to aid persons addicted to gambling.

The General Board of Church and Society, annual conferences, and local churches shall work with the National Coalition Against Legalized Gambling and grassroots organizations opposing gambling to stop and reverse legalized gambling. The General Board of Church and Society shall report to the 2008 General Conference which stock market and securities practices might be considered forms of gambling. The Board shall consult with the General Board of Pensions and Health Benefits and other agencies with investment portfolios in developing this report.

ADOPTED 1980, AMENDED AND READOPTED 1996, AMENDED AND READOPTED 2004
See Social Principles, ¶ 163G, Book of Discipline, 2004

• From The Book of Resolutions of The United Methodist Church — 2004. Copyright © 2004 by The United Methodist Publishing House. Used by permission.

 

[Graubo3]

Its not if you win or lose its how long you play,I go to Vegas 2 time a year and I never pay for a roam, I play black jack and if you know how to play I win 2 out of 3 times. set a limit and watch what you are doing and play no more then 3 hrs a day and you can win some money, my last trip I set down and won 1500 in the a hr, and did not play the next day and on my last day I lost 800$ so I make 700 for the trip and all my food and roams got paid very good trip,I take 1500 to gambl with each trip,3000 a year last year i wasa 1800 a head and did not spend any thing on food or roams, had a ball.

Hey Bill,

Now I know why you have reminded of Bret and Bart Maverick . I learned in the cold winter and seasonal employment many moons ago that I was no good at gambling. I did learn that I could survive on next to nothing though.

Peace, Graubo