Gay unions 'bad for family'

[WanderAimlessly]

**Gay unions ‘bad for family’
**By Patricia Karvelas
December 26, 2005

RECOGNISING gay civil unions would undermine marriage and should be resisted by John Howard, say conservative Liberal backbenchers.

Coalition MP David Fawcett, who has called for financial support from the Government for a quit-smoking-style campaign to stop marriage breakdown, said yesterday that recognising gay unions would undermine the family.

Full Story​

PF

 

[LeahInancsi]

I couldn’t help but notice that this is an Australian article.

In the U.S., marriage is a state issue. Will states who don’t recognize “civil unions” honor the “civil unions” of other states? The issue is going to get much more complicated before it is resolved. I, also, doubt that it will be resolved any time soon.

First, I think “civil union” must be clearly defined and be distinctly different than “heterosexual marriage.” I won’t go into to this topic in depth because I haven’t come to terms 100% with the Church’s position on this subject.

Even more, I’m not opposed to homosexuals adopting children. The children that they are able to adopt are children that no one else will take. It’s better for a child to have two loving parents than live from one foster home to another. I know a wonderful gay couple who adopted a son and this child could not have found a better family than with these two guys. The grandmothers provide the him with female role models. BTW, the child’s birth mother was a prostitute and drug addict who had no idea who the baby’s father was or what color he was. The mother is white and the father must be Hispanic. They took this newborn without knowing what problems he would have. Fortunately, he is a bright, healthy and delightful 4 year old.

 

[LSK]

I am an American and I find it interesting that with all the debate over separation of Church and State ( a much misunderstood issue) that no one has brought up the idea that ‘marriage’ is a Sacrament. The government should not be issuing a license for a Sacrament. Any couple who wishes to have a civil union should register with the government so that they can be taxed accordingly and then, take that registration to the Chruch of their choice to celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage. This way, if their particular religious institution recognizes a homosexual ‘marriage’ they can have their marriage. My Church, the True Christian Church, does not recognzie homosexual marriage and never will. I cannot imagine a homosexual couple wanting a Catholic marriage but if they wanted a Christian ceremony there are plenty of Christian religious ministers today who will perform such a ceremony.

 

[soulspeak23]

LSK:

I am an American and I find it interesting that with all the debate over separation of Church and State ( a much misunderstood issue) that no one has brought up the idea that ‘marriage’ is a Sacrament. The government should not be issuing a license for a Sacrament. Any couple who wishes to have a civil union should register with the government so that they can be taxed accordingly and then, take that registration to the Chruch of their choice to celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage. This way, if their particular religious institution recognizes a homosexual ‘marriage’ they can have their marriage. My Church, the True Christian Church, does not recognzie homosexual marriage and never will. I cannot imagine a homosexual couple wanting a Catholic marriage but if they wanted a Christian ceremony there are plenty of Christian religious ministers today who will perform such a ceremony.

I think that you are right on the money with your idea. Governments should issue civil unions and churches and other religious institutions should handle the sacraments. Also, I just read a little book that has tremendous insight on the Bible’s teachings on homosexuality that is almost a 180 on what is generally acepted by Catholics today. Its called “What the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality” by Daniel A. Helminiak, a Roman Catholic Priest.

 

[LSK]

The book you read, is the priest in communion with Rome?

Sometimes, a book is written by a priest and it says it is based on the Bible, but it must be remembered that Catholic Teaching is not limited to Sacred Scripture. It also includes Sacred Tradition, which is why Catholics do not consider themselves children of the Book, but Children of the Word Incarnate.

My idea is actually more of a slap in the eye towards an increasingly secular American society. We cannot have our cake and eat it too. We are either a society based on Judeo-Christian ethics or we are not. If we are a government which is going to pretend to not promote a state religion in any way, shape or form then we should not issue licenses for things like marriages. We do not issue governmental licences for baptism or for a bris.

 

[soulspeak23]

LSK:

The book you read, is the priest in communion with Rome?

Sometimes, a book is written by a priest and it says it is based on the Bible, but it must be remembered that Catholic Teaching is not limited to Sacred Scripture. It also includes Sacred Tradition, which is why Catholics do not consider themselves children of the Book, but Children of the Word Incarnate.

My idea is actually more of a slap in the eye towards an increasingly secular American society. We cannot have our cake and eat it too. We are either a society based on Judeo-Christian ethics or we are not. If we are a government which is going to pretend to not promote a state religion in any way, shape or form then we should not issue licenses for things like marriages. We do not issue governmental licences for baptism or for a bris.

The author blurb says “he was awarded a Licentiate in Sacred Theology from the Pontifical Gregorian University and ordained a Catholic priest in Rome.” I am not one to assume but it looks like this man has studied with the best. He does not really argue so much with what the Bible says but with HOW it was meant to be said and the cultural differences in language and interpretation that generally have not been taken into account by the general public. According to the book, many things in the Bible that have come to be associated with homosexuality, if taken into context of the time and language, actually are speaking of different topics altogether. It just gave a very interesting point of view and was easy to understand. The examples he gave put things into a new light.

 

[spiritblows]

LSK:

I am an American and I find it interesting that with all the debate over separation of Church and State ( a much misunderstood issue) that no one has brought up the idea that ‘marriage’ is a Sacrament. The government should not be issuing a license for a Sacrament. Any couple who wishes to have a civil union should register with the government so that they can be taxed accordingly and then, take that registration to the Chruch of their choice to celebrate the Sacrament of Marriage. This way, if their particular religious institution recognizes a homosexual ‘marriage’ they can have their marriage. My Church, the True Christian Church, does not recognzie homosexual marriage and never will. I cannot imagine a homosexual couple wanting a Catholic marriage but if they wanted a Christian ceremony there are plenty of Christian religious ministers today who will perform such a ceremony.

In Europe, civil marriage is entirely a separate affair in many countries. The priest or minister is not authorized to perform the civil aspect of marriage, which is in essense a legal contract. I think that this set up is more in the keeping with the separation of church and state, and leaves the sacrament aspect of marriage up to the religious institutes, while the state is in charge of the legal aspect.

I personally have no problem with Gays, celibates, or any adult being entitled to one civil union of their choice, to protect their property rights, etc. I think the government should step out of the ‘marriage’ biz entirely, and merely grant civil unions, one per person, with all the legal rights therein.

 

[LeahInancsi]

In the US, the gays are wanting the “legal” rights that heterosexual couples have when they obtain a marriage license and marry in a church or by a judge, justice of the peace, etc… It’s not a matter of religion. There are several religions who will marry homosexual couples in a religious ceremony, but the marriage is not recognized by the government.

On the religious level, marriage is a Sacrament. A couple also needs to get a marriage license from the state government to be eligible for the **legal ** benefits of marriage.