Genesis 19:8

  • Thread starter Thread starter copland
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

copland

Guest
" I have two daughters who as yet have not known man: I will bring them out to you, and abuse you them as it shall please you, so that you do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my roof." (Exodus 19:8)

I am looking for a good explanation for this. The best I have found so far is that Lot used very poor judgment, and even worse when he got his daughters pregnant, which he paid the price by being the ancestor for the Moabite and Ammonites.
 
40.png
davethecatholic:
You mean Genesis 19:8, right?
Click to expand...
Yes Dave, he meant that.

Signing off HAL9000!
 
copland said:
" I have two daughters who as yet have not known man: I will bring them out to you, and abuse you them as it shall please you, so that you do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my roof." (Exodus 19:8)

I am looking for a good explanation for this. The best I have found so far is that Lot used very poor judgment, and even worse when he got his daughters pregnant, which he paid the price by being the ancestor for the Moabite and Ammonites.
Click to expand...

Here’s Josephus on Genesis 19 (approx 90 A.D.)…
  1. When Abraham heard this, he was grieved for the Sodomites; and he rose up, and besought God for them, and entreated him that he would not destroy the righteous with the wicked. And when God had replied that there was no good man among the Sodomites; for if there were but ten such man among them, he would not punish any of them for their sins, Abraham held his peace. And the angels came to the city of the Sodomites, and Lot entreated them to accept of a lodging with him; for he was a very generous and hospitable man, and one that had learned to imitate the goodness of Abraham. Now when the Sodomites saw the young men to be of beautiful countenances, and this to an extraordinary degree, and that they took up their lodgings with Lot, they resolved themselves to enjoy these beautiful boys by force and violence; and when Lot exhorted them to sobriety, and not to offer any thing immodest to the strangers, but to have regard to their lodging in his house; and promised that if their inclinations could not be governed, he would expose his daughters to their lust, instead of these strangers; neither thus were they made ashamed.
  2. But God was much displeased at their impudent behavior, so that he both smote those men with blindness, and condemned the Sodomites to universal destruction. But Lot, upon God’s informing him of the future destruction of the Sodomites, went away, taking with him his wife and daughters, who were two, and still virgins; for those that were betrothed (21) to them were above the thoughts of going, and deemed that Lot’s words were trifling. God then cast a thunderbolt upon the city, and set it on fire, with its inhabitants; and laid waste the country with the like burning, as I formerly said when I wrote the Jewish War. (22) But Lot’s wife continually turning back to view the city as she went from it, and being too nicely inquisitive what would become of it, although God had forbidden her so to do, was changed into a pillar of salt; (23) for I have seen it, and it remains at this day. Now he and his daughters fled to a certain small place, encompassed with the fire, and settled in it: it is to this day called Zoar, for that is the word which the Hebrews use for a small thing. There it was that he lived a miserable life, on account of his having no company, and his want of provisions.
 
copland said:
*"*The best I have found so far is that Lot used very poor judgment, and even worse when he got his daughters pregnant, which he paid the price by being the ancestor for the Moabite and Ammonites.
Click to expand...

This is also the explanation I have heard.

It is worth keeping in mind that just because the Bible talks about someone doing something, it does not thereby endorse what they have done. It is merely reporting the fact, and it is for the careful reader to see what comes of that action.

A good example of this is polygamy. Many people assume wrongly that since many of the Old Testament patriarchs seem to have multiple wives and the Bible does not explicitly condemn their action, it must be OK. But if you look into the further history of these men (for example, Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc), you see that, sooner or later, tragedy results from these polygamous unions, either directly or indirectly.
 
A similar passage can be found in Judges 19. It doesn’t make much sense, but if you read the story to the end, the deed is revenged.
 
The episode simply demonstrates the extreme seriousness with which the Law of Hospitality was regarded in the Ancient Near Eastern world. Lot is offering his daughters for maltreatment by the Sodomites, in place of his angelic guests. In terms of the Law of Hospitality (which still obtains among the Bedouins, for example), what Lot did was both expected and praiseworthy. When one received even a stranger as a guest under one’s roof, it constituted a solemn pledge of shelter, protection, safety and defense - unto the death!

The episode shows, too, how the Old Testament should NOT be studied without a working familiarity with Ancient Near Eastern history and culture…
 
40.png
tjmiller:
The episode simply demonstrates the extreme seriousness with which the Law of Hospitality was regarded in the Ancient Near Eastern world. Lot is offering his daughters for maltreatment by the Sodomites, in place of his angelic guests. In terms of the Law of Hospitality (which still obtains among the Bedouins, for example), what Lot did was both expected and praiseworthy. When one received even a stranger as a guest under one’s roof, it constituted a solemn pledge of shelter, protection, safety and defense - unto the death!

The episode shows, too, how the Old Testament should NOT be studied without a working familiarity with Ancient Near Eastern history and culture…
Click to expand...
Even though the point about Middle Eastern hospitality is well taken, this interpretation of the event carries this rationale too far. In ANY culture, including that of the Middle East, seriously offering one’s virgin daughters to be abused in the place of a guest would be considered beyond the pale of hospitality.
 
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good. (Ezekiel 16:49, 50)

Lot simply made a poor choice.
 
40.png
tjmiller:
The episode simply demonstrates the extreme seriousness with which the Law of Hospitality was regarded in the Ancient Near Eastern world. Lot is offering his daughters for maltreatment by the Sodomites, in place of his angelic guests. In terms of the Law of Hospitality (which still obtains among the Bedouins, for example), what Lot did was both expected and praiseworthy. When one received even a stranger as a guest under one’s roof, it constituted a solemn pledge of shelter, protection, safety and defense - unto the death!

The episode shows, too, how the Old Testament should NOT be studied without a working familiarity with Ancient Near Eastern history and culture…
Click to expand...
Philo again on Gen 19:8

**Lot exhorted them to sobriety, and not to offer any thing immodest to the strangers, but to have regard to their lodging in his house; and promised that if their inclinations could not be governed, he would expose his daughters to their lust, instead of these strangers; neither thus were they made ashamed. **

Haydock has this to say:

Stalling technique

"Lot tries by every means to divert them from their purpose; being well assured, that they would have nothing to do with his daughters, who were promised to some of the inhabitants. He endeavors to gain time, hoping perhaps that his guests would escape by some back way, while he is talking to the people."

Mistake theory

"Some allow that under so great a perturbation of mind, he consented to an action which could never be allowed, though it was a less evil."
 
There has been some good insights and references made here! I checked Philo on this passage in Gen 19:8, but I did not check Josephus, thanks for the quote! I also checked the Church Fathers and found nothing, which really surprised me. I did not find anything from Aquinas either.
 
copland said:
" I have two daughters who as yet have not known man: I will bring them out to you, and abuse you them as it shall please you, so that you do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my roof." (Exodus 19:8)

I am looking for a good explanation for this. The best I have found so far is that Lot used very poor judgment, and even worse when he got his daughters pregnant, which he paid the price by being the ancestor for the Moabite and Ammonites.
Click to expand...

Bearing in mind the semi-sacred status of guests in many cultures, I think he was offering the men of Sodom an alternative to raping his guests - they could expend their energies on his daghters instead. Women, after all, were not much more than property; they were under the control of their fathers & husbands.​

Compare this:
  • Judges 19:10 But the man would not spend the night; he rose up and departed, and arrived opposite Jebus (that is, Jerusalem). He had with him a couple of saddled asses, and his concubine was with him.
  • Jdg 19:11 When they were near Jebus, the day was far spent, and the servant said to his master, “Come now, let us turn aside to this city of the Jebusites, and spend the night in it.”
  • Jdg 19:12 And his master said to him, “We will not turn aside into the city of foreigners, who do not belong to the people of Israel; but we will pass on to Gibeah.”
  • Jdg 19:13 And he said to his servant, “Come and let us draw near to one of these places, and spend the night at Gibeah or at Ramah.”
  • Jdg 19:14 So they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down on them near Gib’e-ah, which belongs to Benjamin,
  • Jdg 19:15 and they turned aside there, to go in and spend the night at Gibeah. And he went in and sat down in the open square of the city; for no man took them into his house to spend the night.
  • Jdg 19:16 And behold, an old man was coming from his work in the field at evening; the man was from the hill country of Ephraim, and he was sojourning in Gibeah; the men of the place were Benjaminites.
  • Jdg 19:17 And he lifted up his eyes, and saw the wayfarer in the open square of the city; and the old man said, “Where are you going? and whence do you come?”
  • Jdg 19:18 And he said to him, "We are passing from Bethlehem in Judah to the remote parts of the hill country of Ephraim, from which I come. I went to Bethlehem in Judah; and I am going to my home; and nobody takes me into his house.
  • Jdg 19:19 We have straw and provender for our asses, with bread and wine for me and your maidservant and the young man with your servants; there is no lack of anything."
  • Jdg 19:20 And the old man said, “Peace be to you; I will care for all your wants; only, do not spend the night in the square.”
  • Jdg 19:21 So he brought him into his house, and gave the asses provender; and they washed their feet, and ate and drank.
  • Jdg 19:22 As they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, base fellows, beset the house round about, beating on the door; and they said to the old man, the master of the house, “Bring out the man who came into your house, that we may know him.”
  • Jdg 19:23 And the man, the master of the house, went out to them and said to them, "No, my brethren, do not act so wickedly; seeing that this man has come into my house, do not do this vile thing.
  • Jdg 19:24 Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine; let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing."
  • Jdg 19:25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man seized his concubine, and put her out to them; and they knew her, and abused her all night until the morning. And as the dawn began to break, they let her go.
  • Jdg 19:26 And as morning appeared, the woman came and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her master was, till it was light.
  • Jdg 19:27 And her master rose up in the morning, and when he opened the doors of the house and went out to go on his way, behold, there was his concubine lying at the door of the house, with her hands on the threshold.
  • Jdg 19:28 He said to her, “Get up, let us be going.” But there was no answer. Then he put her upon the jenny; and the man rose up and went away to his home.
  • Jdg 19:29 And when he entered his house, he took a knife, and laying hold of his concubine he divided her, limb by limb, into twelve pieces, and sent her throughout all the territory of Israel.
  • Jdg 19:30 And all who saw it said, “Such a thing has never happened or been seen from the day that the people of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt until this day; consider it, take counsel, and speak.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top