Genesis 3:15 question

[RNRobert]

I have a question regarding translations of Genesis 3:15. The oldest Catholic Bible in English, the Douay-Rheims (based on the Latin Vulgate, the official Bible of the Catholic Church) reads :

I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and they seed and her seed, she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.

Many Catholic writers see this as a prophecy regarding Mary, and indeed there are examples of Catholic artwork which show Mary trampling a snake.
HOWEVER, all other Catholic translations (NAB, RSV-CE, NRSV) and all Protestant translations replace ‘she’ as ‘he’ )The Jerusalem Bible renders the word as ‘it’).
I’m curious. Which translation has it right?
Any Scripture scholars out there who can shed some light on the subject? Thanks!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

You answered it in your first paragraph.

"The oldest Catholic Bible in English, the Douay-Rheims (based on the Latin Vulgate, the official Bible of the Catholic Church) "

What interpretation of this passage do all the Fathers of the Church have?

 

[Pug]

I agree, it probably has to do with which old language or source is being used to decide what English to write. I don’t have a copy of the Vulgate, but the issue may be that there is a “she” there in a latin conjugation or a venerable interpretation that is not there in the standard hebrew copy.

I do have the standard hebrew, and it is conjugated with a masculine singular.

BTW, my more recent Duay does not have a she there. It has be revised a lot.

Caveat: I am not a scholar.

 

[RNRobert]

I just remembered something I read that may shed more insight into this situation. I have a book entitled 365 Mary by Woodeene Koenig Bricker. It’s basically a devotional guide with readings about Mary for each day of the year. Here is a portion of the reading for November 15:

In 1531a peasant who lived near Tenochtitlan (which is now Mexico City) saw a vision of a beautiful woman who identified herself as the Virgin of Guadalupe. At least that’s what we’re generally told. However, given that the peasant, Juan Diego, was a Nahuatl Indian, it’s unlikely she used the Spanish word *Guadalupe *when talking to him. More likely she described herself with the Nahuatl word Coatlaxopeuh, which is pronounced “quat-le-su-pay.”
Dissection of the native word reveals something fascinating about Mary herself. *Coa *means “serpent,” tla is a noun-ending interpreted as “the,” while *xopeuh *means “to crush or stamp out.”
If this *is *the word Juan Diego heard from Mary, she identified herself as “the one who crushes the serpent.”

Some interesting food for thought…

 

[RNRobert]

Brother Rich, Pug:

I posted this question in the “Ask an apologist” forum. The answer was taken in part from Jimmy Akins 'Internet Question Box (and provided a link to it). Basically, what Pug says is right: The Hebrew in this verse is masculine. According to Jimmy Akin, it was probably a copyist error.
Click here to see the post.

As for the church fathers, I don’t know what they say on the issue. Anyone reading this who has some of their writings who could help us out?

 

[BayCityRickL]

Strong’s concordance (based on the King James Version) renders the word as “it” with an apparent reference to “her seed.” That makes perfect sense to me as a reference to Christ, no?

NAS [not a scholar]

 

[Pani_Rose]

The sixties version of the Jerusalem Bible did not use it. The versions for eighties onward are inclusive language.

 

[RNRobert]

A comment in Peggy Frye’s reply to my query (in the AAA section) made me re-read Bishop Challoner’s note for this verse. He wrote:

Ipsa, the woman; so divers of the fathers read this place, conformably to the Latin; other read it ipsum, viz., the seed. The sense is the same: for it is by her seed, Jesus Christ, that the woman crushes the serpent’s head.

I also have a Catholic Bible program on CD-ROM that has the DRB with Fr. Haydock’s notes (originally published in the 19th century, I believe), that repeats Bishop Challoner’s note and adds this:

The Hebrew text as Bellarmine observes, is ambiguous: He mentions one copy which had ipsa instead of ipsum; and so it is even printed in the Hebrew interlineary edition, 1572, by Plantin, under the inspection of Boderianus. Whether the Jewish editions ought to have more weight with Christians, or whether all the other MSS. conspire against this reading, let others inquire. The fathers who have cited the old Italic version, taken from the Septuagint agree with the Vulgate, which is followed by almost all the Latins; and hence we may argue with probability, that the Septuagint and the Hebrew formerly acknowledged ipsa, which now moves the indignation of Protestants so much, as if we intended by it to give any divine honour to the blessed Virgin. We believe, however, with 5. Epiphanins, that “it is no less criminal to vilify the holy Virgin, than to glorify her above measure.” We know that all the power of the niotlier of ~o&* is derived from the merits of her Son. We are no otherwise concerned about the retaining of ipsa, she, in this place, than in as much as we have yet no certain reason to suspect its being $ennine. As some words have been corrected in the Vulgate since the Council of Trent, by Sixtus V. and others, by Clam. 1/IlL so, if, upon stricter search, it be found that it, and not the, is the true reading, we shall not hesitate to admit the correction: but we must wait in the mean time respectfully, till our superiors determine. H. Kemnitzius certainly advanced a step too far, when he said that all the: ancient fathers read ipsum. Victor, Avitus, 5. Aug. 5. Greg. &c. mentioned in the Douay Bible, will convict him of falsehood. Christ crushed the serpents head by his death, suffering himself to be wounded in the heel, His blessed mother crushed him likewise, by her co-operation to the mystery of the Incarnartion; and by rejecting, with horror, the very first suggestions of the enemy, to commit even the smallest sin. 5. Bern. ser. 2, on Missus est. “We crush,” says 5. Greg. Mor. 1. 38. “the serpent’s head, when we extirpate from our heart the beginnings of temptation, and then lie lays snares for our heel, because he opposes the end of a good action with greater craft and power.” The serpent may hiss and threaten; he cannot hurt if we resist him. H. *For some reason, the notes in the program have some typos, some of which I was able to correct, but some I couldn’t figure out what it was supposed to say.

 

[Todd_Easton]

The earliest reference I can find to Genesis 3:15 is in the writings of St. Irenaeus of Lyon, who about A.D. 189, seems to understand the passage as meaning that Jesus will crush the head of the serpent. Irenaeus said:

He has therefore, in His work of recapitulation, summed up all things, both waging war against our enemy, and crushing him who had at the beginning led us away captives in Adam, and trampled upon his head, as thou canst perceive in Genesis that God said to the serpent, “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; He shall be on the watch for thy head, and thou on the watch for His heel.” For from that time, He who should be born of a woman, [namely] from the Virgin, after the likeness of Adam, was preached as keeping watch for the head of the serpent. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chap. 21).

Similarly, earlier in the same work, Irenaeus alluded to Genesis 3:15:

For this end did He put enmity between the serpent and the woman and her seed, they keeping it up mutually: He, the sole of whose foot should be bitten, having power also to tread upon the enemy’s head; but the other biting, killing, and impeding the steps of man, until the seed did come appointed to tread down his head,–which was born of Mary, of whom the prophet speaks: “Thou shalt tread upon the asp and the basilisk; thou shalt trample down the lion and the dragon;”–indicating that sin, which was set up and spread out against man, and which rendered him subject to death, should be deprived of its power, along with death, which rules [over men]; and that the lion, that is, antichrist, rampant against mankind in the latter days, should be trampled down by Him; and that He should bind “the dragon, that old serpent” and subject him to the power of man, who had been conquered so that all his might should be trodden down. (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 3, Chap. 23).

 

[Steven_Merten]

In Solomon’s book of Wisdom, he seems to relate to Jesus and calls Him “Wisdom”. “Wisdom” is related to as female. I think that this could be a similiar situation.

**NAB WIS 9:4 **

**Give me Wisdom, the attendant at your throne, and reject me not from among your children; **

**NAB COL 2:2 **

**I wish their hearts to be strengthened and themselves to be closely united in love, enriched with full assurance by their knowledge of the mystery of God–namely Christ–in whom every treasure of wisdom and knowledge is hidden.

**

**NAB WIS 10:9 **

But **Wisdom delivered from tribulations those who served her. She, **when the just man fled from his brother’s anger, guided him in direct ways, Showed him the kingdom of God and gave him knowledge of holy things; **NAB WIS 10:13 **

**She did not abandon the just man when he was sold but delivered him from sin. **(WIS 6:17–JOH 14:21) (WIS 9:6) (ISA 11:2) (PRO 8:35) **NAB PRO 8:22 Wisdom **

**“The LORD begot me, the firstborn of his ways, the forerunner of his prodigies of long ago; From of old I was poured forth, at the first, before the earth.” **

NAB WIS 8:17

That there is immortality in kinship with Wisdom. **NAB WIS 10:20 **

Therefore the just despoiled the wicked; and they sang, O LORD, your holy name and praised in unison your conquering hand– Because Wisdom opened the mouths of the dumb, and gave ready speech to infants.

**NAB MAT 21:15 **

“Hosanna to the Son of David!” Do you hear what they are saying?" they asked him. Jesus said to them, “Of course I do! Did you never read this: 'From the speech of infants and children you have framed a hymn of praise’?” NAB MAT 9:32

As they were leaving, suddenly some people brought him a mute who was possessed by a demon. Once the demon was expelled the mute began to speak, to the great surprise of the crowds. “Nothing like this has ever been seen in Israel!” they exclaimed.​

**NAB WIS 7:24 **

For Wisdom is mobile beyond all things by reason of her purity. For she is an aura of the might of God and a pure effusion of the glory of the Almighty; therefore nought that is sullied enters into her. For she is the refulgence of eternal light, the spotless mirror of the power of God, the image of his goodness. And she, who is one, can do all things, and renews everything while herself perduring; And passing into holy souls from age to age, she produces friends of God and prophets. For there is nought God loves, be it not one who dwells with Wisdom. For she is fairer than the sun and surpasses every constellation of the stars. Compared to light, she takes precedence; for that, indeed, night supplants, but wickedness prevails not over Wisdom.

Wisdom

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com