Genesis 38 1-10 for a NT only Protestant

[Cari]

Hey y’all,

Just got off the phone with my sister, who, in the course of conversation mentioned that she’s “always been taught” that we’re not bound to the OT anymore. I’m sure she’s confusing the notion that we’re no longer under Mosiac Law, but through Our Lord’s sacrifice, under the New Covenant, however, she has the idea that if a law or concept doesn’t repeat itself in the NT, she can disregard it.

I need help with this in light of Genesis 38, 1-10 (the sin of Onanism). She has a very contraceptive mentality, though she understand that pills, the patch, etc. are abortifacients, therefore evil. She has been taught that any sort of b/c that doesn’t allow conception (i.e. vasectomy, Onanism, barrier methods, etc.) is ok. I mentioned that the only form of b/c specificially mentioned in the Bible was Onanism, and God killed the guy who practiced it (I know there’s more there than just the b/c sin, you don’t need to remind me ). She dismissed it with an “oh, that’s in the OT” comment.

Can anyone help me out here?

1. Is there any NT scripture that specifically prohibits b/c?
2. Where, in the NT, can I find a passage telling her that she still is bound, to some extent, to the moral code instituted by God in the OT, even if they’re not explicity restated in the NT?

I’m dealing with a woman who loves God, but is not going to listen to Church Fathers, Sacred Tradition, or Canon Law. She is a “Bible only” (and, it would seem, vaguely “New Testament only”, which I know is a heresy, but this is a whole other topic to gently broach with her), Christian.

Thanks!
Cari

 

[El_camino]

God’s idea of what is and what isn’t abomination to him has NOT changed. All that God abhorred in the OT, he still abhors now and will abhor forever.

Your sister is wrong in thinking that God has “changed his mind” as to what is sin and what isn’t. God is inmutable (cannot change)

The fact that we are not under the law was NOT God’s changing his mind, but Christ redeeming us from the curse of the law (Gal 3:10-13)

Before Christ, Jews had to follow the Law because it was written. That included MORAL laws as well as Ceremonial laws. Now, we Christians still follow the MORAL laws, not because they are written but because we are inspired to do so by the Holy Spirit. So, for instance the 10 commandments, which were part of the Law, we follow them because the Holy Spirit inspires us to follow them. Still, the fact that the 10 commandments are written is useful to examine our conscience and recognize our sins.

Acts 15 makes it very clear that Christians do not have to follow ceremonial laws, but MORAL laws we should still follow, again, not because they are written, but because the Holy Spirit inspire us to follow them.

28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell. (Acts 15:28)

Onan’s sin is part of the MORAL law (i.e., sexual immorality), which we Christian should still be inspired to follow and should still uphold as sacred.

I hope this helps.

Blessings,

E.C.

 

[Cari]

I hope it does. I know that she’ll ask her pastor about Onan, and he (an advocate of non-chemical, non-abortificient b/c methods) will probably dismiss it as a prohibition on b/c, but rather that Onan wasn’t obeying the Mosaic Law (though, as I understand it, the punishment for the sin of not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death), which will put us back at square one.

I suppose before answering her questions on b/c, I should really be helping her recognize the error of her bordering-on-heresy, NT rules only theology.

I just had another non-Catholic friend of mine, right after posting this thread, ask me where the story of Onan was. When I said, “Old Testament”, she responded with an, “oh, Old Testament”, as in “doesn’t apply to me, baby!” I’d really like to know who started this whole, “If I don’t have to follow kosher laws, I don’t have to follow ANYTHING in the OT” bandwagon and give him a what-for!

Ok, any other suggestions?
C

 

[sandusky]

…I’m sure she’s confusing the notion that we’re no longer under Mosiac Law, but through Our Lord’s sacrifice, under the New Covenant, however, she has the idea that if a law or concept doesn’t repeat itself in the NT, she can disregard it.

I know that she’ll ask her pastor about Onan, and he (an advocate of non-chemical, non-abortificient b/c methods) will probably dismiss it as a prohibition on b/c, but rather that Onan wasn’t obeying the Mosaic Law (though, as I understand it, the punishment for the sin of not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death), which will put us back at square one.

Until Moses, there was no Mosaic Law.

 

[NotWorthy]

I hope it does. I know that she’ll ask her pastor about Onan, and he (an advocate of non-chemical, non-abortificient b/c methods) will probably dismiss it as a prohibition on b/c, but rather that Onan wasn’t obeying the Mosaic Law (though, as I understand it, the punishment for the sin of not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death), which will put us back at square one.

Even if you ignore Sandusky’s valid point that this was a “wee” bit before the Mosaic Covenant (what, some 450 or so years prior to the MC), if you killed Onan for withholding children, you should also have killed Judah for putting Tamar away instead of pairing her up with Judah’s third son.

 

[kell0618]

Contraception in the NT:

  			Matt. 19:6; Eph. 5:31 - contraception prevents God's ability to "join"  					together. Just as Christ's love for the Church is selfless and sacrificial, and  					a husband and wife reflect this union, so a husband and wife's love for each  					other must also be selfless and sacrificial. This means being open to new life. 					
  			Acts 5:1-11 - Ananias and Sapphira were slain because they withheld part of a  					gift. Fertility is a gift from God and cannot be withheld. 					
  			Rom.1:26-27 - sexual acts without the possibility of procreation is sinful.  					Self-giving love is life-giving love, or the love is a lie. The unitive and  					procreative elements of marital love can never be divided, or the marital love  					is also divided, and God is left out of the marriage. 					
  			1 Cor. 6:19-20 - the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; thus, we must  					glorify God in our bodies by being open to His will. 					
  			1 Cor. 7:5 - this verse supports the practice of natural family planning  					("NFP"). Married couples should not refuse each other except perhaps by  					agreement for a season, naturally. 					
  			Gal. 6:7-8 - God is not mocked for what a man sows. If to the flesh,  					corruption. If to the Spirit, eternal life. 					
  			Eph. 5:25 - Paul instructs husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the  					Church, by giving his entire body to her and holding nothing back. With  					contraception, husbands tell their wives, I love you except your fertility, and  					you can have me except for my fertility. This love is a lie because it is  					self-centered, and not self-giving and life-giving. 					
  			Eph. 5:29-31; Phil. 3:2 - mutilating the flesh (e.g., surgery to prevent  					conception) is gravely sinful. Many Protestant churches reject this most basic  					moral truth. 					
  			1 Tim. 2:15 - childbearing is considered a "work" through which women may be  					saved by God's grace. 					
  			Deut. 22:13-21 – these verses also show that God condemns pre-marital  					intercourse. The living expression of God’s creative love is reserved for a  					sacramental marriage between one man and one woman. 					
  			Rev. 9:21; 21:8; 22:15; Gal. 5:20 - these verses mention the word "sorcery."  					The Greek word is "pharmakeia" which includes abortifacient potions such as  					birth control pills. These pharmakeia are mortally sinful. Moreover, chemical  					contraception does not necessarily prevent conception, but may actually kill  					the child in the womb after conception has occurred (by preventing the baby  					from attaching to the uterine wall). Contraception is a lie that has deceived  					millions, but the Church is holding her arms open wide to welcome back her  					children who have strayed from the truth.

–www.scripturecatholic.com

 

[Cari]

Until Moses, there was no Mosaic Law.

Actually, your kind correction might help in this case. I’ll point that out to her, and see what she says.

Bear in mind, this is a woman who teaches her children strict-Genesis 1, 7 day literal creation, so she keeps some teachings of the OT. Maybe just parts for science, and not morality?

 

[Cari]

kell0618, thank you for the scripture. I’ll be passing that along to her! It’ll be interesting to see what she makes of it.