Genuine NFP question

[TSB4]

Hello all,

I’m new here. I’ll give a little background.

My husband was baptized as a baby catholic, but never made his sacraments or confirmation, and doesn’t know about the faith or live his life like a catholic.

I myself, was never baptized, I went to church occasionally as a child. A baptist church. I never really grew a relationship with god from going to church because I was never taught. So I have been trying to find my way as an adult and its all very confusing to me.

We have four children, from 7 and under. Allot of work, and finances. My husband is done having children. I myself, feel torn. I know as for me being overwhelmed and needing my breaks, needing to get myself together with work and school, I know it’s best we don’t have anymore kids. Also, I need to lose some weight because I’m pre diabetic which is scary. I don’t want to mess with my health.

On the other hand, a part of me is craving another baby. I pray about it and it somehow always leads me back to “try to get the courage to leave it up to god”

We currently use the withdrawal method. I know, immoral And ineffective. I tried NFP but, it was allot of work and confusion. We moved and now the NFP teachers are like nonexistent. So we resorted to the withdrawal. To add, my husband doesn’t really trust not withdrawing.

My question is, why is NFP acceptable by the church in the first place? If you have a contraceptive mentality, it’s wrong right? But, isn’t it what it is? To learn when you’re fertile, and deliberately avoid sex on those days, to me, is a contraceptive mind. And messing with gods plan. How on earth can one still have procreative and unitive sex on days when they are absolutely infertile? Sex at these times would be for pleasure purposes only. This issue has been driving me a little crazy, it seems so contradictory.

Having said that, my husband is now thinking of having a vasectomy. I don’t feel right about it, really. But what other options do we have? If he’s going to keep withdrawing, NFP isn’t an option right now. What else is left? Other than to go on and have more children we probably wouldn’t be able to support mentally and financially.

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[PaulinVA]

I’ll be brief, hopefully others can fill in the blanks.

The Church says that it is perfectly acceptable to postpone pregnancy for serious or grave reason. You can search this site for the millions of threads discussing what serious and grave mean.

So, if you have a serious reason to postpone pregnancy, and you do that by abstaining during fertile times, you are, in essence, cooperating with the biology the God created to achieve an end that the Church says is okay.

When you contracept, you are saying that you can have sex any time you want, and attempt to* thwart* God’s biology through artificial means.

 

[Brando]

In a more basic statement, artificial contraceptives say that God made you wrong. NFP says that you acknowledge how God made you, it is good, and you will work with it instead of against it.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[opus101]

Hello all,

My question is, why is NFP acceptable by the church in the first place? If you have a contraceptive mentality, it’s wrong right? But, isn’t it what it is? To learn when you’re fertile, and deliberately avoid sex on those days, to me, is a contraceptive mind. And messing with gods plan. How on earth can one still have procreative and unitive sex on days when they are absolutely infertile? Sex at these times would be for pleasure purposes only. This issue has been driving me a little crazy, it seems so contradictory.

I don’t think it is so much about having procreative/unitive relations on infertile days as it is about refraining from it on fertile days (as opposed to engaging in marital relations on those days while using contraceptives).

It is entirely possible to get pregnant (though not nearly as probable) when engaging in marital relations on “infertile” days, and you have to be open to accepting that possibility.

And on fertile days, abstaining from marital relations (rather than engaging in them with the use of contraceptives) is the honest and moral way of doing things.

If there is a serious reason to practice the above, it is not really a “contraceptive mindset”, as you always have to be open to the possibility of a new life willed by God. Keep in mind, surprise pregnancies also happen with the use of contraceptives. But at least w/ NFP you are not actively working against it.

It is true that some people might abuse the method for selfish purposes, with a “contraceptive mentality”.

Since you are evidently interested in the religious and moral implications of it all, you might want to consider attending an RCIA (inquiry class into the Catholic faith) with your husband. You will be able to ask a lot of questions there.

God bless you.

 

[jilly4ski]

To put in another way,

God made the marital act a certain way. To a Catholic (to anyone) to disorder the act is a grave sin. Thus contraction, withdrawl, sterilization, etc all disorder the marital act to something it is not supposed to be.

It is moral to avoid having children if there are legitimate reasons for doing so. (An easy example would be if you were suffering from a dangerous illness, but the Church says many factors can go into the decision to avoid). To abstain from marital relations has always been a moral way to prevent children. NFP is just a way for couples to avoid marital relations in a way to avoid children while avoiding complete abstinence, which could cause one party to fall into sin.

Abstaining is not disordering the marital act, thus abstaining is moral.

Likewise, not abstaining during naturally infertile times is moral. Since the act hasn’t changed, you can not be disordering it by having marital relations.

 

[aemcpa]

You state you are a Christian but that you have never been baptized. Have you considered getting baptized and joining the Church? The grace of the Sacraments (including the sacrament of Matrimony) would be a source of incredible peace and joy in your life and in your marriage, and it is God’s will that you have that grace. Go to the nearest Catholic Church and ask to be baptized. You will have to go through a course of study and prayer to learn the Catholic faith, but that will benefit you as well. If your husband hasn’t made his sacraments, then you could probably do the course together and receive your sacraments together next year, and your marriage will become sacramental as well.

 

[manualman]

Almost all of the church’s controversial teachings on sex come down to this basic concept: Marriage, sexual intimacy and babies are NOT three separate subject, they are a single, complex and beatiful gift from god to humanity.

When we make them separate issues, we do serious damage to the gift. For some reason, people REALLY want to separate them, so we have:

1. premarital sex
2. serial “marriages” (divorce/remarriage)
3. contraception / sterilization
4. In vitro fertilization and/or cloning
5. “gay marriage”
6. polygamy / adultery

Each of these is a manifestation of human desire to try to change the gift instead of accepting it as it is and regiving it to the spouse. At the beginning is the comprehension of what a gift it is and the decision to believe that God made the gift so well, that our attempts to improve it can only degrade it.

How does contraception degrade the gift while NFP does not? Contraception alters human sexuality such that it is unrelated to making babies unless the couple WILLS it to. This subtly cheapens the entire thing. Supporting evidence is in our society all around us as we’ve normalized contraception over the past 90 years. See any cheapening? NFP, on the contrary, doesn’t change intimacy into a merely recreational act divorced from babies unless babies are willed by the couple. NFP requires the difficult sacrifice of those abstinance day by which God designed us to be able to retain the spiritual link inside that sex STILL fundamentally involves procreation. God’s a smart designer, you see… Those fertile times serve put the procreative reality of intimacy FRONT and center in a way that popping a pill or pulling out never will. They also serve as a crucible test of our “serious reason” not to have more kids. Ask around among contraceptors and you’ll find that they have, “planned children” and “oopsie children” (it does happen!), but you’ll get blank looks if you ask how many “oh what the heck” children. Ask the same question to long time NFP couples and the “what the hecks” will outnumber the oopsies. I’m serious. NFP retains our nature that makes marriage fundamentally oriented towards having children. Contraception kills it. Did you know that every single developed nation on earth in which contraception is socially respectable has a BELOW replacement lifetime fertility rate? True (google: CIA factbook total fertility rate). This is why.

All the above is little consolation when you are in a tough spot. But truth isn’t always easy or gentle, is it? Sorry, I wish I could make it easy.

 

[TSB4]

I don’t think I have “just” reasons to abstain from having children. In the church’s eyes anyway. I don’t have a serious health problem. I do suffer with anxiety disorder, and as I stated, pre diabetes. But neither are life threatening and can be treated or reversed. We just feel we have 4 kids, and we feel its enough. Sometimes I do get baby fever, but other times, I just feel so overwhelmed and DONE. It’s all confusing.

Since we don’t have “just” reasons, does that mean we are obligated to continue to procreate?

 

[aemcpa]

I don’t think I have “just” reasons to abstain from having children. In the church’s eyes anyway. I don’t have a serious health problem. I do suffer with anxiety disorder, and as I stated, pre diabetes. But neither are life threatening and can be treated or reversed. We just feel we have 4 kids, and we feel its enough. Sometimes I do get baby fever, but other times, I just feel so overwhelmed and DONE. It’s all confusing.

Since we don’t have “just” reasons, does that mean we are obligated to continue to procreate?

You should never decide you’re “done” having children. You should discern continuously whether it’s moral to postpone having another child right now. That way you and your husband are always in dialogue and you maintain the openness to life that is a necessary component of marriage. The overwhelming feeling of having four young ones is a legitimate thing, but it is also transitory. 12, 10, 8 and 5 is a lot different than 7, 5, 3 and a newborn. You are never OBLIGATED to have another, but you are obligated to be open to the possibility and your sexual life with your husband needs to be ordered toward that possibility. But the decision as to whether you have a just reason to postpone having a child is largely left to the consciences of the couple (which assumes that those consciences are properly formed). Just because a condition is treatable or reversible doesn’t mean that they aren’t a legitimate concern this month.

 

[TSB4]

You should never decide you’re “done” having children. You should discern continuously whether it’s moral to postpone having another child right now. That way you and your husband are always in dialogue and you maintain the openness to life that is a necessary component of marriage. The overwhelming feeling of having four young ones is a legitimate thing, but it is also transitory. 12, 10, 8 and 5 is a lot different than 7, 5, 3 and a newborn. You are never OBLIGATED to have another, but you are obligated to be open to the possibility and your sexual life with your husband needs to be ordered toward that possibility.

Each time I pray about what I do, something leads me back to the possibility of Gavin more children. I know that NFP isn’t an option, I have no teachers in my area, and my body throws off the whole charting which is very frustrating. I think for me, I’m afraid to have more children. I just don’t know which direction The Lord is trying to take me on this. Even if I change my thoughts on this, my husband will still contracept anyway. Thanks for all the answers! You guys have been helpful.

 

[jilly4ski]

I don’t think I have “just” reasons to abstain from having children. In the church’s eyes anyway. I don’t have a serious health problem. I do suffer with anxiety disorder, and as I stated, pre diabetes. But neither are life threatening and can be treated or reversed. We just feel we have 4 kids, and we feel its enough. Sometimes I do get baby fever, but other times, I just feel so overwhelmed and DONE. It’s all confusing.

Since we don’t have “just” reasons, does that mean we are obligated to continue to procreate?

The Church does not say you must have serious medical conditions to avoid children. It says there are many factors that go into a couples decision to avoid, including, medical, emotional, financial, and social reasons.

An uncontrolled anxiety disorder, or being on anxiety meds might be a reason for you and your husband to abstain. Not keeping up with your bills might be a reason to abstain. I think the real thing is that you discern your reasons every month (the abstaining part is pretty good at making you do that). And you look to improve your situation so that you no longer have those reasons. You won’t always feel so overwhelmed, you might get your pre diabeties and anxiety under control. Then you won’t have serious reasons to avoid.

 

[aemcpa]

Each time I pray about what I do, something leads me back to the possibility of Gavin more children. I know that NFP isn’t an option, I have no teachers in my area, and my body throws off the whole charting which is very frustrating. I think for me, I’m afraid to have more children. I just don’t know which direction The Lord is trying to take me on this. Even if I change my thoughts on this, my husband will still contracept anyway. Thanks for all the answers! You guys have been helpful.

You could call the Couple to Couple League and ask if they have any online resources. Charting isn’t something your body should be able to “throw off”, because it is just a means of recording what your body is doing. The key is learning how to interpret the signs your body is giving even when they are irregular, and that does take time and help to learn.

 

[TSB4]

I just don’t think my husband will stop contraceptive. Even when I tried NFP he still used the withdrawal method. So, at this point I guess the ball is in his court. I cannot stop him from contracepting.

 

[aemcpa]

I just don’t think my husband will stop contraceptive. Even when I tried NFP he still used the withdrawal method. So, at this point I guess the ball is in his court. I cannot stop him from contracepting.

That’s true. All the more reason for both of you to get to RCIA receive the Sacraments ASAP. Pray for his conversion and for a healthy marriage daily.

 

[maryjk]

Each time I pray about what I do, something leads me back to the possibility of Gavin more children. I know that NFP isn’t an option, I have no teachers in my area, and my body throws off the whole charting which is very frustrating. I think for me, I’m afraid to have more children. I just don’t know which direction The Lord is trying to take me on this. Even if I change my thoughts on this, my husband will still contracept anyway. Thanks for all the answers! You guys have been helpful.

Only you and your husband can decide whether or not you need to avoid pregnancy. People here cannot decide for you.

I didn’t have an instructor. I learned from a book. It isn’t the best option, but I didn’t have the option of an instructor.

I just don’t think my husband will stop contraceptive. Even when I tried NFP he still used the withdrawal method. So, at this point I guess the ball is in his court. I cannot stop him from contracepting.

And this is the real problem. You need to get him on the same page as you. One thing to do is to learn NFP. Use a book, get on line for instructions, anything. The start charting. Let him know you are charting.

See where it goes from there.

 

[rmbrulotte]

Each time I pray about what I do, something leads me back to the possibility of Gavin more children. I know that NFP isn’t an option, I have no teachers in my area, and my body throws off the whole charting which is very frustrating. I think for me, I’m afraid to have more children. I just don’t know which direction The Lord is trying to take me on this. Even if I change my thoughts on this, my husband will still contracept anyway. Thanks for all the answers! You guys have been helpful.

nfp.marquette.edu/about.php

No need to seek out a teacher. You can do NFP MUCH MUCH more easily using this method. It measures your hormones and you don’t have to interpret your symptoms. There is more abstaining at first but it is way easier, IMO. And there is a great online support from the actual researchers themselves. I highly suggest it. You might need to email the nurse directly to create a user account as last I heard the online form was not working well.You can also learn the Billings Method online without seeing an actual teacher.

If you don’t want to get pregnant, you need to stop using the withdrawal method right away.

Also, suffering from anxiety and being pre-diabetic sound like very just reasons for postponing a pregnancy.

 

[Kelfa28]

I learned STM fairly easily by purchasing the text book they already used in class.

I went on Couple to Couple League and got the materials. Yes, we had to abstain until I felt comfortable charting once or twice…but I was able to put almost a 2 year space between babies.
My second child was well planned.
This was all on my own using the text book materials.