Geography of St Mark's Gospel

[MarcoPG]

Here is a useful opinion

ronyan.org/aaronk1994/aaronsblog/20100705are-there-geographical-errors-in-the-gospel-of-mark/

The message of the scriptures is unerring. …

In addition, while the evangelists were unerring, copyists were not. They can and did make errors in their copying. This in no way changes the inerrancy of God’s revealing Word.

What of the communities who would later use those copies? How could they retrieve the Word of God?

 

[PNEUMA]

John’s Gospel has Jesus being crucified the day before Passover:

It was preparation day for Passover, and it was about noon.* And he said to the Jews, “Behold, your king!” John 19:14

NAB footnote:

• [19:14] Noon: Mk 15:25 has Jesus crucified “at the third hour,” which means either 9 A.M. or the period from 9 to 12. Noon, the time when, according to John, Jesus was sentenced to death, was the hour at which the priests began to slaughter Passover lambs in the temple; see Jn 1:29.

i’ll bet my money on this Gospel, it’s all over very accurate

 

[qui_est_ce]

i’ll bet my money on this Gospel, it’s all over very accurate

Well, it appears there are different interpretations. I’m pretty sure the Church hasn’t made a definitive decree on this one.

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

If Jesus died on the Preparation Day for the Passover (Friday), how could he have celebrated the Passover meal on Thursday?

Like I said earlier, I don’t believe it’s the “Preparation Day for the Passover.” It’s the Preparation Day (i.e. Friday) of the Passover week. That means it’s the Friday that fell during the week-long Festival of Unleavened Bread. “Preparation” (Paraskeue) simply means Friday.

Different sects of Judaism used different calenders. Some used solar calendars while others used lunar calendars.

Jesus was likely an Essene Jew and their calendar was quite different from that used by the temple authorities, priests and Pharisees. There were many calendars in use and the Jewish concept of weeks, months and years was not universal.

The bottom line is that the feasts often started on different days depending on what sect of Judaism you belonged to and what calendar they used.

There are many problems with Christ being a part of the Essene sect. For one thing, the Essenes rejected the Temple sacrifices while Our Lord did not. For example, upon his healing of a leper, he orders the man to go to the high priest and offer a sacrifice at the Temple (Mark 1:44). This is true at the Last Supper as well.

And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover? (Mark 14:12)

The Gospel is quite clear that the Last Supper was eaten after the afternoon on which the Passover lambs were slaughtered. Furthermore, in the same verse, the disciples speak of preparing to eat “the passover,” which from the context undoubtedly refers to the passover lamb. If the disciples were Essenes celebrating according to the Essenic calendar, they would not be preparing their meal on the day when the lambs were killed, and they would not be participating in the Temple Sacrifices.

Another problem as I remember is that scholars believe that the Essenes would have been celebrating the Passover on Tuesday, not Thursday. I believe Benedict says this as well, saying that it would give much more times for the court trials to take place. The biggest problem with this is that the Gospels in no way present the narrative as if the Last Supper was on one night, and the Crucifixion three days later! The Gospels tell the story as if the Last Supper was the eve of the Passion.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Like I said earlier, I don’t believe it’s the “Preparation Day for the Passover.” It’s the Preparation Day (i.e. Friday) of the Passover week. That means it’s the Friday that fell during the week-long Festival of Unleavened Bread. “Preparation” (Paraskeue) simply means Friday.

Got it, thanks. Sometimes I can be a little dense.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You were right the first time. I’m confused. So Holy Thursday was the Passover. Friday was the preparation day for the Sabbath? John 19:14 is a bad translation. Jesus really died on the preparation day for the Sabbath, not the preparation day for the Passover.

LOL! That is a bit of an overreaction. John 19:14 as far as I’m concerned is perfectly fine in the Greek (and Latin). Also both the King James Version and Douay-Rheims translate it correctly as “preparation/paraskeve of the passover/pasch,” so it is only certain translations that are problematic.

Isn’t that how the NAB translates it?

It was preparation day for Passover, and it was about noon.* And he said to the Jews, “Behold, your king!” John 19:14

The dating of the events surrounding the passion is difficult, but however it is done, it must be done in a way that harmonizes all the Gospel accounts. That said, if I thought that a two-calendar hypothesis was possible and the only way to harmonize the Gospels, I would accept it. As it is, I think it is unnecessary and unlikely.

QNDNNDQDCE

Could you pick apart my statement above? I don’t quite follow your explanation.

 

[zz912]

Mark 7:31
Mark says they went from Tyros via Sidon to the Decapolis, but nobody would take such a detour.

IIRC, there is some confusion over which Decapolis he is referring to. there may have been a couple of places referred to as the Decapolis.

 

[QNDNNDQDCE]

Isn’t that how the NAB translates it?

It was preparation day for Passover, and it was about noon.* And he said to the Jews, “Behold, your king!” John 19:14

QNDNNDQDCE

Could you pick apart my statement above? I don’t quite follow your explanation.

My argument is that John 19:14 should be translated with the word “of” rather than “for.” The Passover was sacrificed Holy Thursday in the afternoon. The disciples ate the Last Supper that evening. Christ was arrested and crucified the following day, Good Friday, which was the Preparation Day of the Passover (week), for the Sabbath (day).

To elaborate on the last part, consider the no longer existing Octave of Pentecost. The Monday after Pentecost was called Pentecost Monday because it fell during the Pentecost Octave even though Pentecost was the day before on Sunday. The feast of Passover is like our octaves because there was the holiday of Passover (Nisan 14) on which the passover lamb was killed, and then there were seven days that followed it called the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The name “Passover” was also applied to this seven-day feast because of its close connection with the first day. Indeed, the passover meal was technically eaten on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread because the Jewish day began at dusk rather than morning. For that reason, the Friday during the week-long Passover festival could be called the Friday of Passover, even if the proper day of the Passover was the day before. Now, the word “Preparation” can simply mean Friday because it is the day before the Sabbath (Saturday). So “Preparation of the Passover” simply means the Friday that fell during the Passover week.

Hope that’s clear.

 

[Estevao]

Having never taken any university level courses on the Bible and remaining a layman, I’ve always wondered how these secular liberal scholars operate. Even supposing that everything the prof is saying is true, does this overturn the arguments for Markan authorship or for Peter’s testimony being behind this gospel, both external and internal evidence? It seems to me to be a rather smaller point than the unianimous witness of the Church Fathers saying Mark wrote it (why pick Mark if you’re just going to make up somebody, why not Peter?)

If I were in your class I would ask the prof if they even ever read any conservative bible scholarhip. I’d go up to him and drop some names and ask if he was familiar with them (Criag Blomberg, Andreas Kostenberger, N.T. Wright, Richard Bauckham, et al).

From what I’ve heard how it operates is that the liberals stay in their own little bubble and only read each other, and the conservatives scholars read both each other and the liberals, and offer refutations of what they write.

 

[qui_est_ce]

My argument is that John 19:14 should be translated with the word “of” rather than “for.” The Passover was sacrificed Holy Thursday in the afternoon. The disciples ate the Last Supper that evening. Christ was arrested and crucified the following day, Good Friday, which was the Preparation Day of the Passover (week), for the Sabbath (day).

To elaborate on the last part, consider the no longer existing Octave of Pentecost. The Monday after Pentecost was called Pentecost Monday because it fell during the Pentecost Octave even though Pentecost was the day before on Sunday. The feast of Passover is like our octaves because there was the holiday of Passover (Nisan 14) on which the passover lamb was killed, and then there were seven days that followed it called the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The name “Passover” was also applied to this seven-day feast because of its close connection with the first day. Indeed, the passover meal was technically eaten on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread because the Jewish day began at dusk rather than morning. For that reason, the Friday during the week-long Passover festival could be called the Friday of Passover, even if the proper day of the Passover was the day before. Now, the word “Preparation” can simply mean Friday because it is the day before the Sabbath (Saturday). So “Preparation of the Passover” simply means the Friday that fell during the Passover week.

Hope that’s clear.

Yes, that is clear. I didn’t catch the “of” vs the “for.” That speed reading class I took 40 years ago did me no service!

Thank you for taking the time.

 

[steve53]

It is all in Josephus.

First there was the Paschal meal, and then followed the five days of the Passover festival.

The day of preparation occurred every week on a Friday.

Jesus was crucified on the second day of the Passover.

The Sabbath Day started at sundown on Friday, and no work was allowed during the next 24 hours- that time was to be dedicated to God.

At three pm, about three hours before sundown, Jews would begin to “prepare” for the upcoming Sabbath Day, be it during the Passover or not.

That was why Jesus had to be taken down at 3 pm. As a gesture, the Roman authorities under most circumstances allowed the Jews to take down the executed prior to the Sabbath Day.

Source Hagan “Year of the Passover”

 

[qui_est_ce]

It is all in Josephus.

First there was the Paschal meal, and then followed the five days of the Passover festival.

The day of preparation occurred every week on a Friday.

Jesus was crucified on the second day of the Passover.

The Sabbath Day started at sundown on Friday, and no work was allowed during the next 24 hours- that time was to be dedicated to God.

At three pm, about three hours before sundown, Jews would begin to “prepare” for the upcoming Sabbath Day, be it during the Passover or not.

That was why Jesus had to be taken down at 3 pm. As a gesture, the Roman authorities under most circumstances allowed the Jews to take down the executed prior to the Sabbath Day.

Source Hagan “Year of the Passover”

Thanks!