Getting clear about homosexuality

[Baelor]

That is the understanding I subscribe to.

Could you explain the process of that choice? How does a heterosexual person become attracted to persons of the same sex by choice?

Homosexuality is a behavioral choice. The studies I cited talk about no genetic link, or genetic predisposition.

1. The fact that it has not been found does not mean that it does not exist.
2. Even if we assume that the genetic link does not exist, that does not mean that someone is not born gay.
3. Even if we assume someone is not born gay, that does not make homosexuality a behavioral choice.

I will not speak to you as Ethan does, but I have made my response very clear to you, so I am a bit confused about why you are saying the same thing instead of responding to me. Could I help clarify something? Is something I am saying confusing?

My position is that homosexuality is influenced by the environment

In which case it is not a behavioral choice, but rather a consequence of the environment.

and thus modifying the environment we can modify the behavior.

So if known homosexuals were shot on sight, others would simply not be homosexual?

Ok, explain to me how do you LIKE? How do you know you LIKE? do you have control or not over it?

No, I do not have control over my preferences. I tried changing them, and it did not work. I may think about my preferences and consequently they change, but simple effort to change them has never worked.

Do you think a male simply tried sex with another male and then liked it? or did he like it before engaging in it? How did he knew ex ante or ex post he will like it, and thus decided to engage in it?

That, of course, is simply a consequence of one’s position on agency in homosexuality.

 

[Patavium]

Baelor,

To clear definitions. What is your understanding of a behavioral choice?

 

[Baelor]

To clear definitions. What is your understanding of a behavioral choice?

Homosexuality as I define it refers to a mental state, not any action.

Therefore, “choice” involves exactly that – a choice to be in that mental state (vs. being compelled by any force to be in that mental state).

The fact that the CCC mentions homosexuality as deep-seated and that it constitutes a trial without any mention of a moral obligation to attempt to alter one’s sexual attraction tells us clearly that the Church does not commit to the position that homosexuality is a choice.

 

[Domiy]

I’m still waiting for verifiable sources on reputable doctors and psychiatrists claiming that religion is an illness…

 

[OneDayASaint]

I’m still waiting for verifiable sources on reputable doctors and psychiatrists claiming that religion is an illness…

I’m interesting in seeing those - I’m sure there’s been some in the past. Perhaps not reputable but there’s no accounting for tastes when they say something you want to believe.

I found this:

*“Revealed” Religions and Mental Illness

Mental health is a very important and required element for a productive, progressive and happy life. The false claims made by the various “revealed” religions, especially when introduced at an early age, cause much mental anguish and pain to individuals which then has a great potential to have a negative effect on society in general. For example, the case of Andrea Yates who murdered her five little children because she thought Satan had possessed her and was soon going to possess her children. In her twisted Bible based mind, if she murdered her children before “the age of accountability” they would all go to heaven. She thought she’d be executed for the murders and Satan would die with her.

In a similar case which stinks of the Bible story of God telling Abraham to kill his son, Deanna Laney murdered two of her little boys by stoning them to death and then severely handicapped her third little boy. She did this because she thought God wanted her to do it to “prove her complete and unconditional faith in Him.” Of course, God never told Abraham or Mrs. Laney or anyone else to murder their children! THE BIBLE IS WRONG!!! Our God-given reason tells us that the Bible is wrong! Unfortunately, the billions of people who are currently suffering from “revealed” religion put the teachings of the men who wrote the Bible and the men who voted it to be the word of God before God’s gift to them of reason.

The World Union of Deists is very happy to announce that we now have a new member of the WUD Speakers’ Bureau who can professionally address the critically important issue of “revealed” religion and mental illness! Henry Jones, M.D. has volunteered to speak to groups who are interested in learning about this terrible reality, as well as to offer positive and effective solutions to the problem*

From this website:

deism.com/religionmentalillness.htm

The Yates case actually happened in my area. To my knowledge she was diagnosed with severe post-partum depression and post-partum psychosis and not religion. Anti-depressants came into the picture and were dismissed as a cause by the doctor who prescribed them which is very reassuring. I’d take the word of a doctor being implicated in a murder trial over numerous accounts of suicide and homicide linked to antidepressants any day. (Insert sarcasm here.)

If it was Christianity that moved Andrea Yates to murder her children and not a good dose of crazy (for whatever reason) then every Christian in the world would be killing their children. The empirical evidence to the contrary should be enough for anybody to dismiss “murder by Christianity”.

If anyone finds anything else on religion being a mental illness I would still like to see it.