Getting to the real issues in evangelism

[fnr]

I was out on Saturday afternoon for about 2.5 hours in a public forum handing out rosaries with some fellow Catholics. We were following the methods of St. Paul Street Evangelization.

Overall, it was a very good day, with a pretty decent number of people (maybe 10 total in my time there) stopping to talk, for one reason or another. Some were Catholics who hadn’t been to mass in a while. Some were “unaffiliated” and seemed to be seeking something more profound in their lives. And then there was the one, truly difficult conversation that I’m sure represents many other such situations.

A fellow evangelist brought over a man with whom he had been speaking for about 20 minutes. The man was a self-professed atheist, and we set about having a fairly philosophical conversation about physics (“Why is there something rather than nothing?”) and objective morality. He seemed to be interested in all these topics, philosophically. At some point, I realized that while he was intellectually engaged in these topics, personal testimony was probably better. So I told him my own personal conversion story, and how coming back to the Church brought me back into touch with who I really am. At this point, he told his personal story.

He grew up in a family in which his uncle had been sexually molested by a parish priest when he was young. The family complained to the local bishop, who told them that the priest would be reassigned. The victim’s father (grandfather to the man with whom I spoke) was outraged by this response, and told the bishop that he was going to the police. In reply, the bishop told the family that if they went to the police, the family would be excommunicated. At this point, the victim’s mother (grandmother to the man with whom I spoke) became afraid, and prevented her husband from going to the police.

Upon hearing this, all I could do was apologize and say that what had happened to his family was wrong. The conversation didn’t last too much longer. The man thanked us for talking with him and said goodbye. I asked him if he’d like to continue the conversation some other time, but he didn’t respond.

To me, this abuse in the family history was the real heart of the matter. After this man had spent about 20 minutes with my friend and another 30 minutes with me talking about high-level philosophical issues, he revealed that he had grown up in a family where the Catholic hierarchy had hurt them grievously, and that seems to have been the backdrop for this self-professed atheist to grow up and develop a worldview that didn’t depend on God.

The man with whom I spoke took nearly an hour of his own time to talk with a couple Catholics about reasons to believe in God. He obviously had something inside him that was seeking answers he wasn’t getting in his everyday life. But in the shadow of his uncle’s abuse and the bishop’s spiritualized violence, something wasn’t reaching him.

I will pray for him. I’d appreciate any thoughts you have.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thank you for sharing that story.

That illustrates very well how many of those who have disengaged from the Catholic faith are carrying deep wounds. Until those wounds are addressed, we can easily find ourselves talking in circles on the philosophical questions.

I think you probably did the best you could in those circumstances. You gave him your time and attention. You developed enough of a trust with him that he felt comfortable sharing his story. And then you recognized the wrong and apologized for it. What more could you do? Perhaps the encounter planted a seed of trust that can begin to grow. It will take some time, I’m sure, but it will never happen without these types of encounters.

Keep praying for him. I’ll say a prayer for him, too.

 

[KnowtheSilence]

Meanwhile, on an atheist forum somewhere:

"I was out walking the other day when a couple self-professed Catholics stopped me for a chat. We talked for nearly an hour about philosophy, physics, and ethics. Then one of them told me a personal story about how his faith made him feel better. I shared the story of my uncle’s abuse to show that faith isn’t always such a great thing. He felt bad about it, but the conversation petered out after that and I got along with my day.

“To me, his emotional issues were the real heart of the matter. After this man had spent half an hour with me talking about high-level philosophical issues, he revealed that he a purely emotional reason for going back to the Church, and that seems to have been the backdrop for this self-professed Catholic to develop a worldview that depended on God.”

 

[fnr]

Did he say this was the reason he didn’t believe in God?

No, he didn’t say that, but rather than asking him why he didn’t believe in God, I was answering his questions. It started as philosophical questions of science and morality. I switched to my own experience only when it became clear that further philosophical argument was getting nowhere.

It sounds as though his family kept going to church, etc.

He said that his grandmother was a deeply devoted Catholic. I don’t know what happened beyond that.

Many families who have had this experience (sadly) still stay in their religion and still believe in a God, so I’d think his atheism has to do with much more than what happened to his uncle and the fall-out.

Thankfully, that didn’t happen to you or me. It’s hard to say “what if” with any credibility.

Though if I knew about this happening in my family, I’d probably stop believing. I’d probably think: if a priest who’s entire life revolves around God would hurt someone like that, and then a bishop even higher up doesn’t help and threatens like that…what is the use of “developing a worldview that depends on God” if these men, of all people, hurt others.

It just seems to me that there’s a very long shadow.

Did he give other reasons, during his lengthy philosophical/physics discussions with you and your partner, as to why he didn’t believe in a God?
In his case, from what you describe, I think there’s way more to it.

Didn’t get to hear. Or didn’t think to ask.

 

[fnr]

Meanwhile, on an atheist forum somewhere:

"I was out walking the other day when a couple self-professed Catholics stopped me for a chat. We talked for nearly an hour about philosophy, physics, and ethics. Then one of them told me a personal story about how his faith made him feel better. I shared the story of my uncle’s abuse to show that faith isn’t always such a great thing. He felt bad about it, but the conversation petered out after that and I got along with my day.

“To me, his emotional issues were the real heart of the matter. After this man had spent half an hour with me talking about high-level philosophical issues, he revealed that he a purely emotional reason for going back to the Church, and that seems to have been the backdrop for this self-professed Catholic to develop a worldview that depended on God.”

Fair enough critique.

What I had hoped to convey is that “emotional issues” certainly are at play, but fundamentally, I see myself and “feel better” about myself when I see myself as part of the teleology of creation.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I think you handled the situation really well. Perhaps he has not had many such discussions with Catholics, who knows. And maybe this will make some kind of a difference to him and urge him to think about it more deeply and look beyond the abuse story.

 

[Winston_Smith]

I agree this gets to a core issue. You did well to give the man an important opportunity to talk about it to someone who was, in a sense, representing the Church at that moment. For those of us fortunate to not have suffered such abuse personally, I would venture to say it is not really possible to fully understand the depth of serious injury it causes to the individual, and the power it has to impact the entire family. It presents a huge challenge to their faith, while at the same time weakening the very faith they need to cope. To be able to help requires humility, patience, sensitivity, and prayer, but I’m still asking myself, How can we help people “look not our sins but on the faith of your Church”?

 

[RC_Eagle]

I think that we have to work at both levels: emotions and intellect. I certainly know the barrier emotions can erect to the Faith simply from my own family experience. On the other hand, I see Catholic evangelization at the parish level as largely a shallow affair where people are encouraged to listen to each other’s emotional stories and then pick and choose what works for them regardless of substance.

I have tried to address both sides in my own apostolate. I run a website devoted to Catholic evangelism and catechesis at www.logosensarkos.com. The materials on the second page (Audio-Visuals and Essays) can be downloaded for free. I’ve tried to combine in-depth intellectual foundations with the emotional appeal of high art through music (see videos), painting and sculpture (website and book images), and literature (a play entitled “The Word Made Flesh” and one of Baudelaire’s poems at the end of the essay entitled “The Eternal Word”).

 

[ccmcmg]

In my limited experience (with SPSE and on my own), one of the most important things to do is listen. Listen to both the person you are talking with, and listen to God. In the situations I’ve been presented, that hasn’t failed me yet.

Good for you. Keep doing what you’re doing. SPSE has some great resources available as well. I encourage you and others to become supporting members.

 

[ynotzap]

I find that the human element of scandal has driven people away from the Church. But I also think that many of those same people have not really been converted. Real conversion is a deep seated experience with Christ, not easily dismissed. If one can be convinced that we are all sinners and that scandal is inevitable, and that belief in Jesus, and not belief in people is the heart of true conversion. then what people do will not alter one’s belief in Christ. Even if the Pope himself were to scandalize the Church. So when we see people leave the Church because of something someone else did, that the conversion wasn’t really there,or very questionable. Many were formalized or processed, and not really converted. We don’t control conversion, we point the Way.