Ghosts,Spirits

[thistle]

Thats why I stated earlier “what are ghosts”? taken with a grain of salt,lets say for the sake of arguement…blah blah blah. I am not defending ghosts are lost souls that cant make it to heaven.

I have stated God is infinite and we dont know everything about the after life.

You are the one that stated all ghosts photo are fake so rather than I go through and pick 1 out from a billion of them and come back and ask you where was this photo debunked I think it would be easier for you defend your blanketed statement of where and by whoms authority that ALL ghosts pictures have been “proven” fakes.

Which means if ghosts are demons and I never said they were not those pictures count as ghosts pics too.

I dont claim that ghosts are lost souls or they are not. Even though the church teaches what happens after death it does not rule out ghost The are no official documents to my knowledge to cover them. Just because its not taught doesnt mean it doesnt exist. The church is silent on some issues 1. its not important to our salvation 2. keep the door open to possiblilities. For example we as Catholics to not have to have personal devotion to the saints in order to have full communion with the church.

There is littery an infinite realm of unknown knowledge we just dont know enough about heaven and God and to say spacifically this or that cant happen.

Could you in all charty give me spacific information where the church says "There are no lingering souls who have not crossed over"? I would like to learn more. Can you quote something from a council or cc or a vatican document? I am not looking for quotes that may lead one to believe a person does not linger and open to interpretation.But I want spacific “There are no lingering souls who have not crossed over” or at least a quote that comes close to that. I believe the church leaves open ended options to the things not important to our salvation.

Hey my post was in the form of questions not statements I feel I have left enough room for all possbile answers and teachings.

Peace be with you Seems like you could use some

There are no lingering souls that have not crossed over because that contradicts Church teaching and such a belief would be heresy.
When we die our souls immediately go to Hell or to Heaven or Purgatory.

THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT

CCC 1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ. The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul–a destiny which can be different for some and for others.

CCC 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: **either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately, – or **immediate and everlasting damnation.

 

[russell007]

There are no lingering souls that have not crossed over because that contradicts Church teaching and such a belief would be heresy.
When we die our souls immediately go to Hell or to Heaven or Purgatory.

THE PARTICULAR JUDGMENT

CCC 1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ. The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that **each will be rewarded immediately after death **in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul–a destiny which can be different for some and for others.

CCC 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately, – or **immediate **and everlasting damnation.

I apprciate your efforts.Evedently accroding to some experts its up for debate due to so many encounters through out the ages.

Heres a passage from a Peter Kreeft book

Augustine tells of a vision of seeing a little boy at a beach scooping up the ocean thimbleful by thimbleful and emptying it out on the sand. Then he sees an angel who tells him that this boy will have emptied out the entire ocean long before Augustine has exhausted what can be said about God.

That said, it may be that purgatory might in some way involve the life one lived here on earth. It is not incompatible with a belief in purgatory to believe that our purgation might include “revisiting” places that were significant during our earthly lives. It may be that occasionally God allows people to see such souls in order to inspire prayers for them or in some way to teach a lesson to the people who see them.

In any case, what you can tell your kids is this: Although Church teaching does not rule out the possibility of ghosts, and although it also does not rule out the possibility that God might allow us to see ghosts on occasion, the Church does forbid us from attempting to initiate occult contact with departed souls:

First, the Church forbids us to conjure up the dead (Catechism 2116-2117). Peter Kreeft in his book Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Heaven (pgs 34-35) says the reason for “this stricture is probably protection against the danger of deception by evil spirits. We are out of our depth, our knowledge, and our control once we open the doors to the supernatural. The only openings that are safe for us are the ones God has approved: revelation, prayer, His own miracles, sacraments, and primarily Christ Himself…The danger is not physical but spiritual, and spiritual danger always centers on deception.”

“Nevertheless, without our action or invitation, the dead often do appear to the living. There is enormous evidence of “ghosts” in all cultures. What are we to make of them?” He goes on to say “We can distinguish three kinds of ghosts, I believe. First, the most familiar kind: the sad ones, the wispy ones. They seem to be working out some unfinished earthly business, or suffering some purgatorial purification until released from their earthly business. These ghosts would seem to be the ones who just barely made it to Purgatory, who feel little or no joy yet and who need to learn many painful lessons about their past lives on earth.

Take care I am done with our debate.

You may have the last word if you wish however I will give no more response to you on the subject.

Its not what I had in mind when I started the thread.

Peace of Christ be with you and your family.

 

[russell007]

Sonic,

WOW thanks for taking the time!

It will take me weeks to go through all that information.

God Bless you

 

[Sonic]

Sonic,

WOW thanks for taking the time!

It will take me weeks to go through all that information.

God Bless you

You’re welcome, Russ. Looks like Saint Mike’s server is down. It should be up and running again soon. If not, I’ll post an update.

 

[SallyMargie]

i have personally experienced ghost sightings and for some time have been able to hear whispers

i cannot comment on their true nature, of whether they are angels or demons or the souls of the departed. i have no way of knowing. it was a time i am facinated with the ability to communicate with the spirit world and just by my belief and thought these things occured. i did not practice any witchcraft or summoning or whatever

“Ghosts” can merely be spirits in Purgatory looking for prayers.

A friend lived next door to a mortuary, and she often heard someone walking the stairs at night.
One day she was upstairs holding her baby and she saw “the most horrible face I have ever seen.” The baby evidently saw it too, as he began to scream.
She discussed this with her priest, and he thought it could be a soul looking for prayers to get out of Purgatory. My friend is a very prayerful, devout person, so that would make sense.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Hmmmm
No general consensus upon the nature or even the existence of ghosts.
How surprising!

 

[rivera01]

I can recall 2 instances in Scripture where the Apostles beleive Jesus was a ghost and were afraid. In those 2 instances, the Lord never reproached them, as he would normally do, when they mistaked Him for a ghost. He never told them that they did or didnt exist. The frist instance is when the Apostles were out at sea and Jesus was walking on water. The second was at the house where Thomas the Doubter was at, He told Thomas to place his fingers thru His side. He told them that he is not a spirit, but flesh and bones.

 

[Maria65]

Because its not even a theological hypothesis which it would be if it was thought to be a possibility. The Church or the saints would have speculated on this by now but they haven’t.

What you suggest is like saying animals go to Heaven. That is also wrong. Only humans have immortals souls. Animals have mortal souls which die when they die and they cease to exist.

I said I don’t know. You don’t know, either.

 

[russell007]

I said I don’t know. You don’t know, either.

Maria,

I thought you may be interested in this.

atlasobscura.com/places/museum-holy-souls-purgatory

Visit this page of the site to see the scorched hand mark.

Museum of the Holy Souls in Purgatory

Located in the back of the Chiesa del Sacro Cuore del Suffragio church on the banks of the Tiber, the tiny century-old Piccolo Museo Del Purgatorio, or “Museum of the Holy Souls in Purgatory” holds a collection of bibles, prayer books, tabletops, and articles of clothing said to have been singed by the hands of souls in purgatory.

According to Catholic belief, the soul is stranded in purgatory until it atones for its sins, but can hasten its ascent to heaven through the prayers of loved ones still on earth. The scorched handprints and other burn marks collected in this museum are believed to be the product of souls begging their earth-bound loved ones to pray harder.

Victor Jouet, the collector and French missionary, was supposedly inspired to build this purgatorial museum after a fire destroyed a portion of the original Chiesa del Sacro Cuore del Suffragio church, leaving behind the scorched image of a face he believed to be a trapped soul.

The museum’s tiny collection of objects is contained in one glass case.

Also:

cukierski.net/purgatorypackage.shtml

Read about Maria SImma story towards the bottom entittled The Secret of the Poor Souls in Purgatory. Its interesting.

point in her Diary , St. Faustina writes:

One night, a sister who had died two months previously came to me. I saw her in a terrible condition. I redoubled my prayers for her. … The next night she came again, but I saw her in an even more horrible state, in the midst of flames which were even more intense, and despair was written all over her face. … I asked, ‘Haven’t my prayers helped you?’ She answered that my prayers had not helped her and that nothing would help her. I said to her, ‘And the prayers which the whole community has offered for you, have they not been any help to you?’ She said no, that these prayers have helped some other souls. I replied, ‘If my prayers are not helping you, Sister, please stop coming to me.’ She disappeared at once. Despite this, I kept on praying.

After some time she came back again to me during the night, but already her appearance had changed. There were no longer any flames, as there had been before, and her face was radiant, her eyes beaming with joy. She told me that I had a true love for my neighbor and that many other souls had profited from my prayers. She urged me not to cease praying for the souls in purgatory, and she added that she herself would not remain there much longer (58).

You see, prayers work!

 

[russell007]

“Ghosts” can merely be spirits in Purgatory looking for prayers.

A friend lived next door to a mortuary, and she often heard someone walking the stairs at night.
One day she was upstairs holding her baby and she saw “the most horrible face I have ever seen.” The baby evidently saw it too, as he began to scream.
She discussed this with her priest, and he thought it could be a soul looking for prayers to get out of Purgatory. My friend is a very prayerful, devout person, so that would make sense.

SallyMargie,

Your in good company with St. Faustina!

God Bless you

 

[SallyMargie]

SallyMargie,

Your in good company with St. Faustina!

God Bless you

…and God bless you, russell007!