Gideon and St. Therese: When is it "superstition"

[TommyWommy]

“Send me a rose from your heavenly garden” is part of the novena to St. Therese. Gideon asked God to make the fleece dry and make it wet. I keep hearing people say that asking for a specific sign (like a rose) is superstition. I also hear people’s stories of the actual roses that came into their lives. So, what exactly constitutes a superstitious request vs. a “spiritually valid” request? Was Gideon being superstitious? Why or why not?

 

[Spirithound]

“Send me a rose from your heavenly garden” is part of the novena to St. Therese. Gideon asked God to make the fleece dry and make it wet. I keep hearing people say that asking for a specific sign (like a rose) is superstition. I also hear people’s stories of the actual roses that came into their lives. So, what exactly constitutes a superstitious request vs. a “spiritually valid” request? Was Gideon being superstitious? Why or why not?

I think the request to Ste. Therese would be superstitious if you specified what kind of “rose” you expected to receive. I would strongly hesitate to criticize Gideon however, because he was much holier than me, and could know what to ask of God, and what would be His will to grant.

 

[TommyWommy]

I think the request to Ste. Therese would be superstitious if you specified what kind of “rose” you expected to receive. I would strongly hesitate to criticize Gideon however, because he was much holier than me, and could know what to ask of God, and what would be His will to grant.

Yeah, Gideon was VERY specific in what he asked for. I guess I’m still wondering if “send me a rose” means a literal rose or a figurative “rose,” as in some kind of blessing (in a more general sense). Folks seem to tell stories of literal roses, though, which does seem like a pretty specific thing to ask for. I don’t want to be superstitious. I’m really inspired by St. Therese, however. I’m kind of reluctant to ask for a rose when I hear apologists say it is superstitious. I also remember Jesus saying something about how a wicked generation seeks a sign (but I don’t know if that’s applicable here). But, it would be so cool to get a rose. I’m torn. What to do, what to do…?

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

“Send me a rose from your heavenly garden” is part of the novena to St. Therese. Gideon asked God to make the fleece dry and make it wet. I keep hearing people say that asking for a specific sign (like a rose) is superstition. I also hear people’s stories of the actual roses that came into their lives. So, what exactly constitutes a superstitious request vs. a “spiritually valid” request? Was Gideon being superstitious? Why or why not?

No, that is not superstition. Not even close. People have asked signs from God for time immemorial, and have been granted them. I myself was granted a sign from St. Therese, and I do not for one second believe it was a sinful thing to ask for.

Superstition is when you believe something in and of itself is powerful. For example, some people believe relics have magic powers. That constitutes superstition, because you believe that the relic in and of itself will grant you what you wish for. What you should really be thinking is that all healing comes from God. Relics do not heal themselves per se; only God does that, and He can do it through relics.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

I asked St. Therese for a dark red rose. This is what I got 2 days after the novena:

 

[TommyWommy]

I asked St. Therese for a dark red rose. This is what I got 2 days after the novena:

http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/images/yYjm/google-doodle-celebrates-burns-night-0.jpg?20110125-091908

Looks like a dark red rose. How did you receive it? Did it show up on your computer or something?

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Looks like a dark red rose. How did you receive it? Did it show up on your computer or something?

Well, 2 days after the novena, I wanted to search something on Google and I noticed the logo changed. Then I remembered that I made a novena to St. Therese. I was taken back . I later did a search as to why Google changed their logo, and I realized that it was not because of a periodical change, like say, Christmas Day or New Year’s Day. It was a one-off event (something to do about a poet), so I realized it must have been because of St. Therese.

She doesn’t usually give physical roses, although she can. When she gives a rose, it’s generally in the form you are least expecting. My advice is - make a novena to St. Therese, and try to take your mind off from it. She’s a trustworthy saint, and she will deliver on her promise.

 

[TommyWommy]

Well, 2 days after the novena, I wanted to search something on Google and I noticed the logo changed. Then I remembered that I made a novena to St. Therese. I was taken back . I later did a search as to why Google changed their logo, and I realized that it was not because of a periodical change, like say, Christmas Day or New Year’s Day. It was a one-off event (something to do about a poet), so I realized it must have been because of St. Therese.

She doesn’t usually give physical roses, although she can. When she gives a rose, it’s generally in the form you are least expecting. My advice is - make a novena to St. Therese, and try to take your mind off from it. She’s a trustworthy saint, and she will deliver on her promise.

Thank you for sharing that.

 

[ClayPots47]

I never thought of the Novena to St Therese as being superstitious. After all, she herself said, “I will let fall from heaven … a shower of roses.” And many years ago, I received an actual rose. I had been praying the novena, and had gone to the ballroom for break, at the restaurant I worked at. A young couple were setting up vases with roses and baby’s breath for a wedding rehearsal dinner that night. I chatted briefly with them, complimenting on the lovely displays, then rested my head in my arms for the remainder of my break. They finished their vases, and had a few roses with shorter broken stems left. The young woman came over to me saying “Excuse me, would you like a rose?” I lifted my head to see her outstretched hand , holding the fragrant blossom inches away. I took it and thanked her.

It wasn’t until I had carefully stored my flower in the walk-in refrigerator (as I thought the heat of the kitchen would wilt it), wrapped in a wet paper towel and plastic wrap, to keep it hydrated, that it sunk in to me the significance and timing. It was the very last day of the novena, and the Little Flower had sent me an actual rose. My prayer was not answered in the way I expected, but it was nevertheless answered. It was also the Feast of Our Lady of Mount Carmel. It seemed so fitting to receive an actual rose.

The rose isn’t always a physical rose, often it is symbolic; an image, a word, an item containing a rose in/on it. The rose just might be the grace of a favor being answered. The Bible is full of examples where God has given physical signs. We shouldn’t ask for specific signs. For example, we shouldn’t dictate that Terese should send a specific type of rose, but let her choose the rose God intends for us, as a sign He will answer our petition. Most people ask for red roses, as that is the color Terese is often shown holding in her arms.

It could border on superstition to place too much emphasis on the receipt of the rose, and to specify that the rose should be given in a specific manner, and of a specific type. Asking for some extremely rare rose from some remote location, for example. There are a few threads on CAF, that have stories of roses from Terese, that individuals have received from the novena. Some are quite interesting.

 

[Mintaka]

The basic point is that God doesn’t want people asking for signs if they are really trying to be scornful and not to believe, and it’s a bit frivolous to ask for a sign if you don’t need one.

OTOH, St. Therese was never afraid to ask God for “silly”, “childish” things, because she tried to have the trusting heart of a child. Therefore it’s not offensive to her in any way to have people take her promise as being literally about roses; and it’s pretty clear that she and God have some fun with it.

Shrug. Whatever it is, as long as it’s not evil, you can always ask. Jesus said that the Father was never in the business of giving out bad things if you ask Him for good things.

 

[TommyWommy]

I never thought of the Novena to St Therese as being superstitious. After all, she herself said, “I will let fall from heaven … a shower of roses.” And many years ago, I received an actual rose. I had been praying the novena, and had gone to the ballroom for break, at the restaurant I worked at. A young couple were setting up vases with roses and baby’s breath for a wedding rehearsal dinner that night. I chatted briefly with them, complimenting on the lovely displays, then rested my head in my arms for the remainder of my break. They finished their vases, and had a few roses with shorter broken stems left. The young woman came over to me saying “Excuse me, would you like a rose?” I lifted my head to see her outstretched hand , holding the fragrant blossom inches away. I took it and thanked her.

It wasn’t until I had carefully stored my flower in the walk-in refrigerator (as I thought the heat of the kitchen would wilt it), wrapped in a wet paper towel and plastic wrap, to keep it hydrated, that it sunk in to me the significance and timing. It was the very last day of the novena, and the Little Flower had sent me an actual rose. My prayer was not answered in the way I expected, but it was nevertheless answered. It was also the Feast of Our Lady of Mount Carmel. It seemed so fitting to receive an actual rose.

The rose isn’t always a physical rose, often it is symbolic; an image, a word, an item containing a rose in/on it. The rose just might be the grace of a favor being answered. The Bible is full of examples where God has given physical signs. We shouldn’t ask for specific signs. For example, we shouldn’t dictate that Terese should send a specific type of rose, but let her choose the rose God intends for us, as a sign He will answer our petition. Most people ask for red roses, as that is the color Terese is often shown holding in her arms.

It could border on superstition to place too much emphasis on the receipt of the rose, and to specify that the rose should be given in a specific manner, and of a specific type. Asking for some extremely rare rose from some remote location, for example. There are a few threads on CAF, that have stories of roses from Terese, that individuals have received from the novena. Some are quite interesting.

Thank you.

 

[TommyWommy]

The basic point is that God doesn’t want people asking for signs if they are really trying to be scornful and not to believe, and it’s a bit frivolous to ask for a sign if you don’t need one.

OTOH, St. Therese was never afraid to ask God for “silly”, “childish” things, because she tried to have the trusting heart of a child. Therefore it’s not offensive to her in any way to have people take her promise as being literally about roses; and it’s pretty clear that she and God have some fun with it.

Shrug. Whatever it is, as long as it’s not evil, you can always ask. Jesus said that the Father was never in the business of giving out bad things if you ask Him for good things.

That all makes sense to me.