Giving up

[Flavius_Aetius]

Why don’t we just give up debating with Atheists and agnostics? It’s a futile and offensive effort; they seem to look at theism as some alien concept. There only real purpose of debating in the first place is to make themselves feel smarter than you. I don’t see the point in having to listen to smug people being smug just for it to end “Agreeing to disagree”.

 

[kildare]

You got a very good point there Flavius Aetius!
The God the atheists expect is one that reveals himself through reason. Unfortunately the human intellect is not up to that task!
I think they forget a very important aspect of the theistic religions which is that in order to look for God you must first purify yourself.
Although some people are smarter than others, all souls are equal in Gods eyes, and so he reveals himself on a plane where all are equal. No matter how smart or talented or how poor or dumb, we all have the same chance of reaching God - by being virtuous and humble!

Another thing that many atheists lack is humility. Unlike Einstein, who said he felt the humility of a child when confronted with the wonders of the universe, many modern atheistic scientists feel that they have it all worked out. They are only a few steps away from gathering all the data and putting it in their handy little box. The term “wise fools” was never more appropriate!

So the thing to really say to our atheistic interlocutors is first - be pure, be humble and then we can reason together. Otherwise you are dealing with things way way behind your feeble human comprehension.

 

[NE_Catholic]

Why don’t we just give up debating with Atheists and agnostics? It’s a futile and offensive effort; they seem to look at theism as some alien concept. There only real purpose of debating in the first place is to make themselves feel smarter than you. I don’t see the point in having to listen to smug people being smug just for it to end “Agreeing to disagree”.

if it in some Philospical thread or other appropriate place, I reall don’t mind.
When the atheists inject their “beliefs” in a thread where it doesn’t belong, it should be ignored.

 

[JM3]

Why don’t we just give up debating with Atheists and agnostics? It’s a futile and offensive effort; they seem to look at theism as some alien concept. There only real purpose of debating in the first place is to make themselves feel smarter than you. I don’t see the point in having to listen to smug people being smug just for it to end “Agreeing to disagree”.

Should God give up on you, if you keep sinning?

 

[CharityinTruth]

Maybe because people change and so do their religions; a little patient explanation can sow the seeds of faith, even if it seems like you’re hitting your head against a wall in the process.

I say this because I am converting because of patient friends who put up with me when I was angry and hurt and lashing out at everything, including the Church. I fought, ranted, and raved for three years. Where am I today?

Here.

God’s grace is infinite. Since we can never match it, the least we can do is give all we have.

 

[musicality]

Why don’t we just give up debating with Atheists and agnostics? It’s a futile and offensive effort; they seem to look at theism as some alien concept. There only real purpose of debating in the first place is to make themselves feel smarter than you. I don’t see the point in having to listen to smug people being smug just for it to end “Agreeing to disagree”.

We can agree to disagree, but there is no reason why we should not continue to hope for their salvation as much as any one else’s.

How callous and selfish would I have to be to not wish to share God’s glory–the path to heaven–with someone else?

 

[Crumpy]

Jesus commanded us to evangelize the world, by word and deed, as we are so gifted, maybe even by writing posts in this website – being patient with those who are impatient, for example.

One small sermon that I heard about Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden, after they had sinned, is that (in one of the many anthropomorphisms of God in scripture) God was looking for them – “where are you?”

And, the punchline is, that God was not lost, they were. And, atheists are such lost people.

We need to be consistently who we are, believers. And, if it is the will of the Father to call these people to Himself, then He will.

 

[mgreen77]

Why don’t we just give up debating with Atheists and agnostics?

Because I, for one, am here because people like you didn’t give up.

 

[Dymphna82]

Meh, Atheists, just like people of other religions, have to actually be open to dialog and have some modicum of respect for Catholics for any of it to sink in. My old childhood friend is an Atheist now, and the stereotypical far left type. When I was Pagan, it was no big deal that I was Pagan. But I tell her I’ve become Catholic and she acts accepting at first, but then she keeps bringing it up and asking questions about how, why. The questions aren’t out of sincere desire to learn but out of desire to judge. If folk are fixed on their decision to believe in no God, fine. But I could go without the condescending attitude, and I could go without the bringing up convo about pedophile priests. That seems to be their favorite subject.

On the other hand, had an interesting convo with another Atheist last night that wasn’t so bad. I don’t think Atheism makes people snobs, but I think that just like various religions, it can have people who believe anyone who doesn’t think like them is inferior.

 

[PJM]

=Flavius_Aetius;7258722]Why don’t we just give up debating with Atheists and agnostics? It’s a futile and offensive effort; they seem to look at theism as some alien concept. There only real purpose of debating in the first place is to make themselves feel smarter than you. I don’t see the point in having to listen to smug people being smug just for it to end “Agreeing to disagree”.

**That my friend is that you expect to be able to convert them! NOPE, Only God can do that.

But Christ NEVER gave up, therefore neither can we**

 

[Flavius_Aetius]

Didn’t see till now that this thread got more responses. In any case I don’t find debating any more useful than I did before; besides the fact that a theist as to prove their own side with nothing but faith the fact remains that no one respects the Catholic church anymore so no one will listen in any case. It’s just an organization to either mock or shake your fist in anger about…

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

…
But Christ NEVER gave up, therefore neither can we

Really? He let the young rich man walk away from him in Mark 10:21. Some people you just can’t reach.

 

[musicality]

Really? He let the young rich man walk away from him in Mark 10:21. Some people you just can’t reach.

He didn’t give up. He let the young man have free will. God will not force you to follow him. In the end, the decision is yours and yours alone.

 

[PJM]

=Reservoir Dog;7340418]Really? He let the young rich man walk away from him in Mark 10:21. Some people you just can’t reach.

***TRUE enough ut it is NOT because God COULDNOT, rather that God does NOT fornce salvaton on anyone!

Which proves once again that salvation is a PROCESS that GOD insist on our active, FREEWILL particiption it is and that Faith while essential to he process is BUT the first step. Tha friend is precisely WHY God gives each of us the Spiritual Gifts of a Mind, Intellect, Freewill and soul!***

God’ continud Blessings,
Pat

 

[Reservoir_Dog]

***TRUE enough ut it is NOT because God COULDNOT, rather that God does NOT fornce salvaton on anyone!

Which proves once again that salvation is a PROCESS that GOD insist on our active, FREEWILL particiption it is and that Faith while essential to he process is BUT the first step. Tha friend is precisely WHY God gives each of us the Spiritual Gifts of a Mind, Intellect, Freewill and soul!***

God’ continud Blessings,
Pat

Exactly.

 

[maryharket]

Hello

 Atheist get me down too. But frankly, I have a problem with people from other traditions that bash the catholic faith. I would much rather debate with an atheist because they are truly looking for some reason to believe than debate with a person of another tradition because they think that they believe in a way that's superior to my way. Besides I know that deep down in the DNA of all us is is an imprint of God. Atheist can run but they can't hide from the lord and a lot of them do come to a point where they run out of rationalizations and finally want the truth.

Don’t give up, there are victories going on every day even if we are not privy to them all.

Take Care M

 

[djeter]

“Some may wonder why all the concern – why not just be happy in my faith, why bother with all the sturm and drang of atheist-theist shouting matches? I think it’s because I was once taken in and that I looked down upon the Lord Jesus from an atheist like superiority. Now that he has become central to my life, I need to explain why and I struggle with that – many of these issues are extremely complex and I get lost in them. I think even the experts do.”

So I search for ways to explain my faith and one of my mentors has been Dr. Edward Feser. If you don’t know of him or have read him, here’s a good example for you. He takes on a problem that has often befuddled me, that part of the atheist rant concerning Teleology and Final Causes.

See what I mean here:

payingattentiontothesky.com/2010/12/16/aristotles-four-causes-by-dr-edward-feser/

dj

 

[PJM]

=maryharket;7362665]Hello

 Atheist get me down too. But frankly, I have a problem with people from other traditions that bash the catholic faith. I would much rather debate with an atheist because they are truly looking for some reason to believe than debate with a person of another tradition because they think that they believe in a way that's superior to my way. Besides I know that deep down in the DNA of all us is is an imprint of God. Atheist can run but they can't hide from the lord and a lot of them do come to a point where they run out of rationalizations and finally want the truth.

Don’t give up, there are victories going on every day even if we are not privy to them all.

Take Care M

My dear friend in Christ,

We all do wel to keep in mind that it is God and God alone who “makes converts.” Faith and it’s companions: Wisdom, Knowledge and TRUE understanding [the world is filled with falsehoods, half-truths, and lack of understanding] are all GIFTS from God; and ONLY God can acomplish them.

Our task is to KNOW, and to Practice fully and publically, our Faith. We ought to be able to explain NOT only what we beleive, BUT WHY we can can and do beleive it. AND always in charity without taking there doubts, skepitism, or hard-heartedness personally.

God’s continued Blessings,
Pat