Gluten free hosts?

[cheezey]

Nearly Cheezey, but I wouldn’t say its to simple or ridiculously wrong…

Some essential quality, a ‘what it is to be bread’ remains, this is what we call the substance or "bread-ness’ for want of a better word.

Now when the host are consecrated the holy spirit is invoked to make this change happen, but it is not the holy spirit that remains, but the substance of Christ-“Christness” for want of a better word, is present as the substance after the consecration and so we can say that the host is(in its substance-its essential aspect) Christ.

I should have typed differently; what I meant to say was
The Holy Spirit invokes Christ to become present within the bread and wine as the Body and Blood; that the bread and wine are bread and wine still and always, but with the Body and Blood of Christ as well, once these items are ‘consecrated.’

Yes? No?

Those non-substances of the bread mentioned earlier don’t change at all, it still looks like bread and will have the same effect on the body, but while the outward appearence doesn’t change but the inner reality does, it is no longer bread per se but only by outward appearence.

God bless.

Thank you. Is this another way of stating my comprehension of this? (above)

** I believe that what happens when the Host is consecrated is beyond the ability of the human mind to comprehend or human language to explain, so I’m content to accept this as an unexplainable mystery, perhaps the way our Orthodox friends believe.
**

…but the Church didn’t know about celiac until the 20th century, so it is not surprising that it would insist on only the purest wheat because, its the Eucharist, and it must be pure, even if the bread used at the Last Supper was ordinary bread, maybe not of the finest flour, maybe with some miller’s grit, or dust in the mix. ****Jesus took this bread and blessed it, and it became His body, regardless. ****

Bread can be made out of a variety of things that don’t put my daughter in the hospital if she accidentally ingests gluten. Her personal agony is, I believe, not pleasing to God. Let me put it another way, 20 centuries of that kind of suffering cannot be pleasing to God.

So knowing what we know now, I don’t understand why the Church can’t bend, just a little.

F.

Mark 2:27
And he said to them: The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.

I heard an alternative explanation on Catholic.com radio once. If Jesus were alive today, and you sent Him for a medical check-up, the test results would show up as a healthy, ordinary human male. That is because we believe He is fully human. But the results would not show His divinity as the second person of the Trinity, His Godhead. So likewise, you cannot tell any physical difference between an unconsecrated host and a consecrated host. The species however, is changed.

What is within is changed…

thank you for your patience. No matter the gluten issue, which is not without consideration, I do not wish to go into this with ignorance. Yet, I’d like to enjoy the mystery, too, as was also stated.

 

[PJM]

=porthos11;10634629]Reread. OP said they were made of rice flour which makes it invalid matter and a very grave concern.

WOOPS:blush:

Missed that; sorry

 

[Fairwinds]

Can your daughter take alcohol? Struggling with allergies myself, I can sympathize where you’re coming from, but consuming the Precious Blood is the same as consuming the Body of Christ. Perhaps you can approach your pastor to explain your situation and arrange something.

for unrelated reasons, that’s not a good idea, but its the only option remaining, so, yes this is what she does.

 

[Theophorus]

I should have typed differently; what I meant to say was
The Holy Spirit invokes Christ to become present within the bread and wine as the Body and Blood; that the bread and wine are bread and wine still and always, but with the Body and Blood of Christ as well, once these items are ‘consecrated.’

Yes? No?

Yes and No.

The holy spirit is indeed called upon to make Christ Present in the Eucharist

However when we consider the ‘bread-ness’, its that which we can say about bread when someone points to a loaf and asks ‘what is it?’ Now when this Substance(bread-ness) is changed during consecration to ‘Christ-ness’(for want of a better term for the divine nature of the Son), the natures of the things(the original bread&wine) changes as well. It is no longer bread or wine, the substances of these two things no longer remain. We can’t have two substances relating to the same non-substances in the same way at the same time(like pointing to an animal and saying it has both ‘dogness’ & ‘catness’, that it is both a cat and a dog, in the same way at the same time.)

In the Eucharist, the outward appearence remains the same, but thats it. If you were to ask the question, what is it? You couldn’t say it is both bread and the body of Christ at the same time in the same way, but only that it is the body of Christ. As the ‘breadness’ has been replaced(trans-substantiation lit: a cross/beyond/over of substances) with the divine nature.

I hope this helps in some way. I am often struck by the wonder of this sacrament and what it means(philosophically and with the eyes of faith) which allows me to delve deeper into the great mystery pf the Eucharist and the great gift that it is. Your questions are good (and relevant in a way to why we can’t use wheat-free hosts), no patience is required.

 

[cheezey]

Yes and No.

**The holy spirit is indeed called upon to make Christ Present in the Eucharist
**
However when we consider the ‘bread-ness’, its that which we can say about bread when someone points to a loaf and asks ‘what is it?’ Now when this Substance(bread-ness) is changed during consecration to ‘Christ-ness’(for want of a better term for the divine nature of the Son), the natures of the things(the original bread&wine) changes as well. It is no longer bread or wine, the substances of these two things no longer remain. We can’t have two substances relating to the same non-substances in the same way at the same time(like pointing to an animal and saying it has both ‘dogness’ & ‘catness’, that it is both a cat and a dog, in the same way at the same time.)

In the Eucharist, the outward appearence remains the same, but thats it. If you were to ask the question, what is it? You couldn’t say it is both bread and the body of Christ at the same time in the same way, but only that it is the body of Christ. As the ‘breadness’ has been replaced(trans-substantiation lit: a cross/beyond/over of substances) with the divine nature.

I hope this helps in some way. I am often struck by the wonder of this sacrament and what it means(philosophically and with the eyes of faith) which allows me to delve deeper into the great mystery pf the Eucharist and the great gift that it is. Your questions are good (and relevant in a way to why we can’t use wheat-free hosts), no patience is required.

oh, my goodness, I am closer to understanding. Truth be known, if I became Catholic tomorrow, I still will have been non most of my life, so this challenging.
And again, my gluten issue is not Celiac related, thus, I could partake traditionally. It’s the rest of the gluten I’d need to watch…
THANK YOU!!! We are getting there!!!

 

[Suslar]

for unrelated reasons, that’s not a good idea, but its the only option remaining, so, yes this is what she does.

The USCCB has approved EXTREMELY low gluten hosts for use as valid matter. They contain less than 0.01% wheat gluten. Independent studies have been done to say this amount is generally deemed safe for most Celiac;s - please see the first couple posts for details.

My concern is that our pastor REFUSES to buy these. He is obstinate in buying “rice cakes” from his normal supplier of Catholic goods. Even after the Director for Divine Worship from our Archdiocese told him not to continue as he has. Pastor says he is being “pastoral” in attempting to offer Communion to everyone. I think he’s being deceitful as the rice cakes are not valid matter and therefore not consecrated. Can you imagine the feeling of thinking you had received Eucharist only to find you had been lied to by your priest? Obviously, this is not a good situation.

 

[Fairwinds]

The USCCB has approved EXTREMELY low gluten hosts for use as valid matter. They contain less than 0.01% wheat gluten. Independent studies have been done to say this amount is generally deemed safe for most Celiac;s - please see the first couple posts for details…

that’s too much. my daughter is not among the “most Celiacs”, she will get sick from a fork that’s touched anything with gluten.

what can I say? God made her that way.

F/

 

[maryjk]

that’s too much. my daughter is not among the “most Celiacs”, she will get sick from a fork that’s touched anything with gluten.

what can I say? God made her that way.

F/

Has she tried them?

I, too, react to the smallest amount of gluten. Touch my fork to gluten, I might just end up in the hospital. I can, and do, receive the Hosts made by the Benedictine Sisters.

You might want to visit the web site of the sisters that make the Hosts.

altarbreadsbspa.com/altarbreads/index.php?main_page=page&id=2&zenid=81042504f6eeb0ffb2aa36b6a264112d

Since we began selling these breads we have served over 2000 celiac sufferers. Our low gluten altar breads were featured in an article in the magazine Gluten-Free Living. The editorial and accompanying write-up cited data from the Center for Celiac Research that showed that the less than 0.01% gluten content of our breads would be perfectly safe for most celiacs. The article states

The measurement cited here, 0.01%, represents 100 PPMs (parts per million). But the more important number is 37 micrograms, because it is daily exposure to gluten that counts. The best current information shows that 10 milligrams a day should be safe.

Ten milligrams is the same as 10,000 micrograms. If you divide 37 micrograms into 10,000 micrograms, you will find that you would have to eat 270 wafers every day to reach the danger point. At most, celiacs would consume one wafer per day or about 0.04% (four tenths of one percent) of the amount considered dangerous.

 

[Fairwinds]

Has she tried them?..

thank you … truly … for your concern, I’ll inquire.

F/

 

[Suslar]

and of course, the hosts made by the Benedictine Sisters can be broken in 1/2 or a 1/3 for her.if that works. Certainly, you know her best.

If she also cannot receive the Precious Blood from a chalice that no one else has consumed from, the USCCB says:

“In such cases, the bishop may grant permission for individuals to receive mustum, a type of wine with a minimal alcohol content. If an individual is unable to tolerate mustum, there is little else the Church can do except to recommend that the person make a “spiritual communion.” Why? Because the Church believes that it is impossible to consecrate anything except wheat bread and grape wine. From the time that the Lord Jesus took bread and wine and told his disciples: “Do this in memory of me,” the Roman Catholic Church has tried faithfully to fulfill Christ’s command by taking unleavened bread made from water and wheat flour, and wine made from grapes for use at the Eucharist.”

Seems to me once all options have been exhausted, the one that remains is Spiritual Communion. IMO, much better to make a spiritual communion rather than being duped into thinking a rice cake is Christ.

 

[aspirant]

that’s too much. my daughter is not among the “most Celiacs”, she will get sick from a fork that’s touched anything with gluten.

I know others are confident about the extremely low gluten bread, but I think you’re right to be cautious. Your daughter’s health is not something to be trifled with.

 

[cheezey]

I know others are confident about the extremely low gluten bread, but I think you’re right to be cautious. Your daughter’s health is not something to be trifled with.

absolutely.
give me one fourth of a peanut, give me a hundred. either way, :stretcher:

 

[tequirk]

I know others are confident about the extremely low gluten bread, but I think you’re right to be cautious. Your daughter’s health is not something to be trifled with.

I’ve learn a lot by reading this thread on this very important issue of gluten in the Eucharistic host affecting Celiac’s sufferers. Considering how some people can’t receive Jesus in the sacred Host, even in low-gluten form, I’m truly more grateful now that I can.

I have a thought, however: perhaps our merciful Lord makes extraordinary graces available to those who cannot receive Him under the guise of bread and/or wine because of a serious medical condition. I’m keeping in mind that the Sacraments are the *normal *channels of grace with God makes available to us. Wouldn’t He, in His divine Wisdom, compensate in this way?

Just a thought. Grateful to share.

Tom

 

[benjohnson]

T I think he’s being deceitful as the rice cakes are not valid matter and therefore not consecrated.

In our church we solve the matter by giving those with Cealic a smaller portion of the host. Some will take the chalice as there’s particles of the Host co-mingled and they therefore get both species.

 

[aspirant]

I have a thought, however: perhaps our merciful Lord makes extraordinary graces available to those who cannot receive Him under the guise of bread and/or wine because of a serious medical condition. I’m keeping in mind that the Sacraments are the *normal *channels of grace with God makes available to us. Wouldn’t He, in His divine Wisdom, compensate in this way?

I have no reason to believe that God would not do this. I fact, explicitly pray for this every time I receive the Eucharist!

My prayer is “Lord, please extend the graces of this Eucharist to all those who are not able to receive, for whatever reason, inasmuch as they are able to receive your grace without condemnation, for their sanctification and salvation.” I sometimes add the names of non-Catholic friends or family members specifically, but I deliberately pray it for everyone, including any Catholics who are not able to receive communion.

It’s a prayer loosely inspired by St. John of Damascus’ prayer for the worthy reception of Communion: “…make me worthy to receive without condemnation Thy divine, glorious, spotless, and life-giving Mysteries, not for punishment, nor for an increase of sins, but for purification and sanctification…”

In our church we solve the matter by giving those with Cealic a smaller portion of the host. Some will take the chalice as there’s particles of the Host co-mingled and they therefore get both species.

In the Catholic Church, people with celiac may receive the Eucharist under the species of wine alone. They may request that no particles of the Host be added into the chalice from which they will receive. According to Catholic theology, they receive the whole Christ in this manner, as does everyone who receives.

 

[cheezey]

I have no reason to believe that God would not do this. I fact, explicitly pray for this every time I receive the Eucharist!

My prayer is “Lord, please extend the graces of this Eucharist to all those who are not able to receive, for whatever reason, inasmuch as they are able to receive your grace without condemnation, for their sanctification and salvation.” I sometimes add the names of non-Catholic friends or family members specifically, but I deliberately pray it for everyone, including any Catholics who are not able to receive communion.

It’s a prayer loosely inspired by St. John of Damascus’ prayer for the worthy reception of Communion: “…make me worthy to receive without condemnation Thy divine, glorious, spotless, and life-giving Mysteries, not for punishment, nor for an increase of sins, but for purification and sanctification…”

I’ve been wondering where I am in this from day one. Gluten or no. Believing as Catholics do, thus wanting RCIA, then joining only after much to do, still wanting to partake and still cannot. I know it’s not the case, but it still makes me feel purposefully excluded. Perhaps as such, I need this even more so. And still…

 

[benjohnson]

I
My prayer is “Lord, please extend the graces of this Eucharist to all those who are not able to receive, for whatever reason, inasmuch as they are able to receive your grace without condemnation, for their sanctification and salvation.”

What a stunningly beautiful prayer! Thank you for such kindness.

 

[tequirk]

My prayer is “Lord, please extend the graces of this Eucharist to all those who are not able to receive, for whatever reason, inasmuch as they are able to receive your grace without condemnation, for their sanctification and salvation.” I sometimes add the names of non-Catholic friends or family members specifically, but I deliberately pray it for everyone, including any Catholics who are not able to receive communion.

It’s a prayer loosely inspired by St. John of Damascus’ prayer for the worthy reception of Communion: “…make me worthy to receive without condemnation Thy divine, glorious, spotless, and life-giving Mysteries, not for punishment, nor for an increase of sins, but for purification and sanctification…”

Thank you. Committing this prayer to memory! Awesome.