God, 100Billion Galaxys and our tiny little earth?

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It was difficult to tell whether he was more critical of God or of people who attributed everything to Him.

That said, one wouldn’t expect Sagan to come up with the philosophy that our own existence stemmed from the need for the Creator to have someone other than Him to know and appreciate Him.
I don’t think he had much contact with the Catholic Church. His bugaboos all appeared to be against Christian Fundamentalism–as if they spoke for the whole of Christianity. In that he was sorely mistaken. It may be that it was easier to punch holes in their thinking than to do so with Catholic thought and teaching or he simply wasn’t aware of it.
 
I imagine and hope that almost everybody gets Purgatory, the Mother Theresa types and the Joseph Stalin types both being very rare in human life.

So we can be hopeful on any given human case that they got Purgatory and will one day see life everlasting.

Life everlasting – an amazing phrase non? More than enough to give us significance, whatever the smallness of our human bodies or world?

ICXC NIKA
 
I imagine and hope that almost everybody gets Purgatory, the Mother Theresa types and the Joseph Stalin types both being very rare in human life.

So we can be hopeful on any given human case that they got Purgatory and will one day see life everlasting.

Life everlasting – an amazing phrase non? More than enough to give us significance, whatever the smallness of our human bodies or world?

ICXC NIKA
I understand what you are saying. God is merciful and sees each heart better than any of us can. Having said that, I don’t think he gives preferential treatment to people who have been famous or who accomplished much, for good or ill. Each of us is precious in his eyes and in his heart. We can see all the good Mother Teresa did, but not so much with Stalin. They say that Hitler got the trains to run on time, but I don’t think that would weigh very much against his sins or those of Stalin, or Mao or other infamous tyrants.

Every human soul is immortal, it’s where we will spend eternity that is important. Our actions in response to God’s grace will determine that. I dare say, to bring us back on topic, that if there are sentient beings on other worlds, that they are held to the same standard as we are.
 
I think about this a lot, ive studied astronomy quite a bit and in the grand scheme of things we are very very insignificant, we all think in this tiny bubble of ours we call earth that our lives are pretty important but in reality we are a spec of dust floating through the air or a grain of sand in an endless ocean, as soon as our sun dies our solar system will end and will go totally unnoticed, take our own galaxy for example, its 100,000 light years across, which is mind blowing considering there are over 100billion galaxy’s out there that we know of, now scientists believe there are ( in our milky way galaxy alone) possibly over 100,000 civilizations in our own backyard, its just space is so huge and distances so massive that we cant communicate with them, now think of the other 100billion galaxy’s out there and of all the planets and possible civilizations inside these, its hard to get your head around isn’t it? even more so if we start talking about multiverses, many different dimensions than our own reality, things that are beyond human understanding. …
While it appears we’re insignificant in the universe (and we are, physically speaking - earth itself wouldn’t be visible from the nearest star except with a very powerful telescope eg. the Hubble), my own personal experience is that God knows not only where we are, but what we’re thinking.

I’ve severall times related that I’ve had three double whammies. It’s like a breath going through you in waves from head to foot, very pronounced, arrives out of the blue, and is clearly imposed upon you.

The first time was at a place called Forest Glen Caravan Park, south of Nambour in SE Queensland, Australia (Now that’s a specific place in the universe). It was around Christmas 1983, hot and sultry. I was a new Christian at the time helping out at a Scripture Union “beach mission” (except we weren’t at a beach), and was feeling very cynical about my faith for various reasons. I hadn’t told anybody about my cynicism - not a soul. My thoughts were anything but positive for various reasons.

Anyway a group of us were sitting around under a marquis during a bible study session about 3pm in the afternoon, I was feeling both cranky, but also half dozing off in the sultry weather. But just as the study group leader read from the Bible the phrase “… a man after my own heart…” the first double whammy hit me. I got such a shock I nearly fell of the seat. So here was my first indication that God existed all right, that I was on the right track, and He knew me, and not only that, He knew my frame of mind, and what I was thinking.

When I spoke to my own pastor later about this in my own (Presbyterian) church, he commented, “I think the Lord was just trying to encourage you. He knew you’d been through a tough trot.”

The same sort of “double whammy” occurred twice more, both times in my local church at Wilston Presbyterian Church in Brisbane, and both times when the pastor said something. One reference had to do with St. Paul, and the other with CS Lewis. Prior to this, I’d been getting very frustrated with what I was supposed to do as a Christian.

Both responses had to do this particular issue, but apart from the pastor, I hadn’t spoken to many other Christians at all. So God once again knew how to find me, what I was thinking, what was being said, and how to get the message to me** without anybody else knowing about it.**

Now each occasion was a few months apart. We move a phenomenal distance through space in a few months, and yet God knew on each occasion where to find me, my frame of mind, what was to be said, and how to highlight it with a “double whammy” on each occasion. There’s been three, and three only, “double whammies” but I remember each of them quite clearly.

I’ve also said before that on the night my own father died, he appeared in my room.

He materialised near the door of my bedroom. I remember that amongst other things he looked a bit surprised. Thinking back on that, I suspect he was surprised to find himself in my flat so quickly. He didn’t know where I lived, and I hadn’t spoken to him for a year. In his own words in the following conversation, “I’ve been an absolute mongrel to you!”, and I still have trouble forgving him because he was cruel deilberately, whiich he also admitted.

I deliberately wanted nothing to do with him, and so I’d never let him know where I lived. Yet possibly within a minute or two of his death, he was in my room starting with an apology, followed by a heated discussion, before disappearing with one almighty scream.

I think God sent him, and once again He knew exactly where to find me as I hurtled around the universe at probably severl million miles an hour or more if we add up all the galactic speeds - earth’s rotation, earth’s revolution around the sun, the sun’s revolution around the Milky Way, the Milky Way’s revolution around the universe.

It was also noteable that he seemed to drift a bit rather than just standing in one place. Whowever or whatever was holding him there had to take into account all these very high speed elliptical revolutions, since being spirit he was not subject to gravity to keep his “feet” firmly planted on the floor.

God knows us all right - what we do, what we don’t do, what we say, and what we think.

Despite the immensity of the universe.

So I for one couldn’t care less if we find other life or not - I’m going to answer to God, and I don’t always make a very good fist of things. UFO"s, the possibility of other civilisations etc, are just a potential side show at most - there’s only one thing that’s going to count in the end, and it isn’t whether a little green man turns up on my door step or not.
 
This has got me thinking. :hmmm: How would this affect the fine tuning argument that some Christians use for evidence of God? After all, if the universe is that large, it would seem inevitable that a planet would exist that can support life.🤷
No matter the size of the universe, you still need “someone” to make
  1. Inanimate matter alive.
  2. You need someone to make it in the image of God.
  3. You need someone to create souls/spirit.
Statistics and probabilities are not going to make these things happen. Perhaps the universe was made for Man and not man arising from the universe through an accident of matter and “natural” forces.

But to answer your question, could another planet support life? Yes it is possible to have planets that have the right amounts of water/air/temperature etc. But someone still need to seed it with life.
 
To continue, then there’s the peculiar prediction by my old prophetic pastor, circa 1990 or 1991 (he died in January 1992, so it was certainly before then), viz.

“I think you’ll be doing a cleaning job for a short time. You won’t like it much, and you won’t be doing it for long,** but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost.”**.

By that time I’d been in his church for about 8 or 9 years, so I knew just how accurate he was with his predictions, but even so I thought it was silly, and basically ignored it.

Fast forward to 2006 and I did a cleaning job for a short time, didn’t like it much and heard about a ghost in an old store I was cleaning in Ipswich, a former manager who’d committed suicide sometime in the 1960’s.

Forward to 2008, and I finally rang up the main priest at Ipswich (St. Mary’s) and told him the story. He said “Leave it to me”. Bu I couldn’t throw off a doubt as to whether he said a mass for the suicide or not (after all I was just a strange voice on the phone), but I didn’t particularly want to ring him again as it would make me look like I was nagging him about it.

Forward to 2010, and I chance upon an Australian priest on Catholic Answers Forums, the only Australian priest I’d seen on the forum, and guess where he was located? St. Mary’s Ipswich! So I sent an email to him via the forum’s facilities, we had a brief exchange, and he reassured me he’d say a mass. This time I felt confident.

Incidentally he’d only graduated from seminary in 2009, which I found out later.

Fast forward to 2013, and I find this same priest is now in the Cathedral office in Brisbane.

So I’m curious as to where the old pastor’s prediction will lead in the long run. Incidentally he also predicted I"d lose my job I had at the time (he said there’s be a bit of a conspiracy against me), and that he also thought I’d become Catholic. If I hadn 't lost my job, there’s no way I would have been doing cleaning, and if I hadn’t become Catholic, I wouldn’t have thought about having a mass said.

So sometime circa 1990/91, as the old pastor and I sat in his office whizzing around the universe at a few million miles an hour, God was telling some future events, including the very peculiar prediction about the ghost. So God wasn’t just tracking our movements - He was also looking into the future when I would have moved trillions of miles through space.

Whenever I get these questions, “How can God do something (that seems illogical)?” I don’t get too hung up on working out His modus operandi. Someone who can track the thoughts of 7 billion people simultaneously as they all move through space at millions of miles per hour, and not only that, foresee some most unlikey “coincidences” isn’t going to have much trouble doing things that seem "impossible’.

Is He?

Personally I’ve given up trying to psychoanalyse God. I sometimes think of George Washington Carver’s alleged exchange with God (as told by my old pastor), when as a young man he asked, “Lord, show me all the secrets of the universe!”

And he seemed to get a reply, “George, I think that might be a bit too much for you.”

And he went away and thought about it, and (to quote the Book of Mormon on every second paragraph), “it came to pass” that George got back to God and said, “Lord, then show me all the secrets of the peanut!”.

And he seemed to hear, “George, I think that’s more about your size.”

From Wikipedia - “Dr. Carver researched and developed more than 300 uses for peanuts including chili sauce, shampoo, shaving cream and glue.” And that was just from the peanut. What price God and the universe?
 
To continue again - in light of my experiences above, I clearly don’t have much of a problem knowing God is there, and that He knows me (and everybody else) very well indeed.

What I **do **have a problem with is how little He seems to make overt use of His undoubted power - the abortionists continue having a field day, in 2000 years He hasn’t yet made converts of the human race, tyrants still appear and reappear with murderous regularity, in 500 years He hasn’t managed to reunify His Church (Protestant / Catholic) or 1000 years in the case of the Catholic / Orthdox split; He’s hardly made an inch of headway converting the Moslems in 1400 years, or the Hindus and Buddhists since before Christ, or the Shinto Japanese etc. etc.

He just seems to let us go blundering on century after century with not much to show for it as far as Christendom is concerned.

It reminds me of my old pastor’s comment, the same pastor who made the accurate prediction/s I’ve written about before, which God obviously gave to him - “Sometimes I wonder if He wants to win. He doesn’t seem to help His own people much!”

And He was a loyal, faithful pastor. On his gravestone are engraved the words from the book of Timothy, ‘I have fought the good fight - I have kept the faith’. But he sure wasn’t starry eyed about his faith.

I don’t have any doubt whatsoever God is there - what I do have a problem with is the way He seems to operate - or not operate.
 
To continue again - in light of my experiences above, I clearly don’t have much of a problem knowing God is there, and that He knows me (and everybody else) very well indeed.

What I **do **have a problem with is how little He seems to make overt use of His undoubted power - the abortionists continue having a field day, in 2000 years He hasn’t yet made converts of the human race, tyrants still appear and reappear with murderous regularity, in 500 years He hasn’t managed to reunify His Church (Protestant / Catholic) or 1000 years in the case of the Catholic / Orthdox split; He’s hardly made an inch of headway converting the Moslems in 1400 years, or the Hindus and Buddhists since before Christ, or the Shinto Japanese etc. etc.

He just seems to let us go blundering on century after century with not much to show for it as far as Christendom is concerned.

It reminds me of my old pastor’s comment, the same pastor who made the accurate prediction/s I’ve written about before, which God obviously gave to him - “Sometimes I wonder if He wants to win. He doesn’t seem to help His own people much!”

And He was a loyal, faithful pastor. On his gravestone are engraved the words from the book of Timothy, ‘I have fought the good fight - I have kept the faith’. But he sure wasn’t starry eyed about his faith.

I don’t have any doubt whatsoever God is there - what I do have a problem with is the way He seems to operate - or not operate.
And what is he supposed to do to remedy all these woes? Send down legends of angels to make us behave? It’s not that simple, is it?

Think of all the time before Christ came–all the bloody wars and idolatry and gross sins committed by humanity. God sent a flood at one point to cleanse the earth, but the sinning started up again as soon as the waters receded. People have tried to found communities dedicated to serving God by moving to new continents, such as to the Americas. Look how that turned out. Why doesn’t God make us do what he wants us to do? Because he is not a tyrant, but a loving Father.

He has given us his Law, even the natural law within our hearts, given us his own Son, and nothing has made us change our ways. Jesus too was cynical when he asked as he carried his cross to be crucified: “If they do these things in the case of the green wood, what will they do in the case of the dry?” He saw all the horrors mankind was yet to commit, and that they would be even worse than those we had done up until his time. And yet, he gave his life for us, poor, pitiful creatures simply because he loves us that much.

It is up to us to show Christ’s love to a rebellious world, even if they persecute and kill us for it. We may not see the fruits during our lifetime, but we will see the rewards at the judgment. That has to be enough for us since we must operate through faith and not certainty in this mad world.
 
I think about this a lot, ive studied astronomy quite a bit and in the grand scheme of things we are very very insignificant, we all think in this tiny bubble of ours we call earth that our lives are pretty important but in reality we are a spec of dust floating through the air or a grain of sand in an endless ocean, as soon as our sun dies our solar system will end and will go totally unnoticed, take our own galaxy for example, its 100,000 light years across, which is mind blowing considering there are over 100billion galaxy’s out there that we know of, now scientists believe there are ( in our milky way galaxy alone) possibly over 100,000 civilizations in our own backyard, its just space is so huge and distances so massive that we cant communicate with them, now think of the other 100billion galaxy’s out there and of all the planets and possible civilizations inside these, its hard to get your head around isn’t it? even more so if we start talking about multiverses, many different dimensions than our own reality, things that are beyond human understanding.

What im getting at hear is this, God must be a busy man and Heaven and Hell must be a massive place, because there isn’t just us! I sometimes wonder if there is a Jesus story being played out on other planets as well? this is deep I know buts its scary when you think about all this, there is so much more going on here, I sometimes question my own faith when I think about this stuff, now I believe there IS a God, for all this just to be here with nothing behind it would be even more astonishing, Does anyone else ever think about this? or is it just me? the universe is just so huge and massive I just cant get my head around it, it can send you crazy the more you look into it because there doesn’t seem to be an end…
Some points:

1- God might have created other intelligent life. Well unless you count Angels who can be regarded as ‘aliens’ although spiritual in nature.

2- The fact that the bible does not talk about ‘aliens’ does not mean they do not exist. Biblical Revelation is aimed at man’s salvation only, not as a science text or even a philosophical text (even if it containst some philosophical books)

3- Maybe God DID create it all for us to explore! Hard to say.
After all He’s God. He does not need to pay any bills, he can make something as big as he wants at no cost. he could have just made the solar system or even just the Earth, in theory, but he didn’t.
in our milky way galaxy alone) possibly over 100,000 civilizations in our own backyard
I think that is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY to optimistic. Star Trek like 😃

I could buy 10 civilization, maybe 100…

On the other hand we might be the only ones in our whole galaxy.

In truth we have no idea at all how ‘likely’ abiogenesis (if like started that way). Just because it happened on Earth it might not happen per se in a planet even if it is just like Earth.

Sure some scientist think life will just eventually happen as long as there are the right conditions, but in reality a ‘potential’ does not necessarely become true, even after infinite time.

Let alone now ‘conscious intelligent life’.
 
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