God and I - a topic that never ends but is our existence

[BrunoMaria]

it’s widely doubted, that Jesus Christ is God in God, and not just a Prophet as any. Doubted even, that the God of the Christians at all lives and exists from eternity to eternity. Whilst we ourselves exist just a split second of this eternity it’s all doubted. Doubted is on earth all that’s not backed by solemn proof and evidence.
Proof and evidence that there is no God, the world presents galore. Though it’s backed by hell, improvable, with no evidence, but lovingly believed.

Now, no-one is in the state to proof God. But that is of course in God’s will. If there’d be any obvious proof, then we’d need not the world God made for us - not for itself. Made for our probation for heaven.
Of all proves, the one and only reliable is our personal relation GOD AND I, that must be like

Let’s try to be not just technical believers, who just do what one is supposed to do in order to be member of our Church. Pharisees where absolute followers of the law of God, and send Christ to death for blasphemy.

The knowledge and conviction that God lives and exists, hardly divides us from doubters, if there is little connection and hesitation in the chain GOD AND I. This connection must live! Live and be alive like the connection to our closest friend and relative - Mom, Dad, Son, Daughter is.
Let’s struggle and strive to forge that unbreakable and inseparable chain GOD AND I
2916God and I.jpg
never fall for silly declarations of even the most popular atheists such as Stephen Hawking † who preach „there is no God“.

Jesus of course is is God in God, and He even holds all power in heaven and on earth, Mt 28,18 - and He is with us if we desire and dearly wish so - for He promised togetherness in His following sentence in Mt 28,20.

Yours
Bruno

 

[anon64704623]

My friend in Christ, the world has enough physical and scientific proofs of the existence of God. According to Saint Thomas Aquinas something cannot come from nothing. Our world must have come from something. Also, the world is governed by the many laws of physics which only an intelligent being can formulate. These natural laws are not man-made, it was discovered by man.

 

[BrunoMaria]

Of course so!

Any believer knows this.

Even all physicist teach this aphorism SOMETHING CAN NOT COME FROM NOTHING.

Still.

The world’s got different answers. Answers that deny God. Stephen Hawking taught „No God was necessary to create“. So do evolutionists. Atheists do. Humanists do.

All of them deny, that the most intelligent laws of physics are formulated by „an intelligent being“. To the vast majority „Evolution“ made it.

Evolution though is dead. It’s not an intelligent being. It’s God’s law of nature.

Hence:

Don’t tell me or our brethren in belief. Tell the atheist world.

All you’ll earn is a an indulgent grin.

The grin of a scull.

Yours

Bruno

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Your post was interesting, and my takeaway is that you are advocating for a personal relationship with God rather than simple rule-keeping?

But is this OP a statement or a question?

Peace

 

[BrunoMaria]

Of course I’m dvocating for a personal relationship with God rather than simple rule-keeping. Jesus Christ always addresses you as His beloved friend. Not you in the mass of believers, but you very personally!
The OP is not asking anything. It’s a firm statement.
Yours
Bruno

 

[adgloriam]

Hallo @BrunoMaria wie geht es dir?

@Tis_Bearself @Spyridon

I would say a way to “verify” the existence of God is through grace. Off course our God is a hidden God. Yet, in following devotion and the sacraments assiduously it is normal to receive “sensible graces”. And the causality with which you receive graces makes for more than a coincidence. Causality and grace are the keywords.

From this point forward things quickly get very complicated. For our intellect enters the equation and also our passions. We are many times the ones driving ourselves away from God because we desire sin. And other times, especially when we are young, our intellect is fooled into demanding proof -that God has already given us- and demanding it in all the wrong places, from ourselves and from others. As if proof needed to be according to what we want to prove, as if we want to prove ourselves.

As Saint Therese of Lisieux said:“Grace is everything”.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We can’t reliably “prove” the existence of God or anything else about God.
Belief in God is ultimately faith-based, as logic will only get you so far.

Faith is a gift and we must pray for it to increase, and that those who do not have it will open their minds and hearts to it and receive it in abundance.

 

[adgloriam]

Faith is a gift

The exact definitions are tricky. Faith is:“Belief in revealed truth”. Which is different from “religious sentiment” which all humans naturally (intuitively, by our very nature) have.

If I do not know “revealed truth” what am I to believe in?

 

[BrunoMaria]

No-one of us believers wants to “prove” the existence of God, because God doesn’t let Himself be proved. But we very well can prove anything else about God. We see the evidence in as Ignatus of Loyola puts it „See God in all there is“.
Tis of course works with those only, to whom the grace of understanding is given. Jesus said so in Mt 13,11-18: …to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven: but to them it is not given……
Hence seeing and comprehending is not so much a matter of course, but much ore so; a matter of open hearted belief.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Why would somoene palaver around with “exact definitions” when we are talking about faith? Faith can’t really be defined. It is not logical and it manifests to different people in different ways.

If one doesn’t know “revealed truth” one must seek and pray. Many people over all levels of the intelligence spectrum, with all kinds of different levels and types of bra(name removed by moderator)ower and understanding and thought processes, have managed to have or find faith.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I read some philosopher (possibly Peter Kreeft), make the assertion that God can’t be proved like a scientific theory, but a case can be made for His existence, like the way we present evidence in a court of law.
I personally find that explanation helpful.
Because although I can’t prove His existence, the existence of a Creator-God is certainly possible and plausible, and I think it’s a good departure point for somembody who is a spiritual seeker.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

In our parish boundaries there is a group home for adults with intellectual and psychological conditions and a lot of them come to our church (they’re high-functioning enough that they’re free to come and go).
Some of them are infrequent drop ins, but one or two go to Sunday and daily mass, and bring devotional books to read, etc.
Then we have doctors and lawyers and college professors, also.
Everybody has a seat at the table.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’ll admit to taking some interest and finding some comfort in the historical proofs of Jesus’ existence and crucifixion. I wouldn’t have stopped believing if there was no proof available, but it is a cherry on top, especially when people claim Jesus never existed and get shot down by some scholar who doesn’t necessarily believe that Jesus was Son of God, or in religion generally, but has the historical proof that a man named Jesus was a populr leader who was crucified under Pontius Pilate.

 

[BrunoMaria]

Jesus Christ spoke and answered with exact definitions. Faith can be defined, because Jesus Christ defined it for us, and He als revealed God for us.
It’s ok to “seek and pray” but we got to find a steadfast point of believe, before we see God after our death. That can happen any moment - disregarding our age and health.
Seek and pray also is ok if one seeks all the rest of his life, but to whom is he praying then? To God the unknown?
Thanks “adgloriam” for asking, but presently I’m not to well - to answer honestly Never mind - old age askes it’s tribute.

Yes, to “verify” the existence of God for neself in the twosome GOD AND I, is a true grace. But he who honestly strives to, will meet God and feel GOD IS EXISTENT AND ALIVE!

You say “From this point forward things quickly get very complicated”.
Objection your honor! From this point forward, things become the divine naturality of Saints.
Remember, that St. Paul named tose who believe as Saints. Let’s join these Saints and become one of them, and from that point on you won’t “desire sin” any longer! You will desire God instead!

as to “OScar…”
of course God can’t be proved like a scientific theory,
of course a case can be made for God’s being
The existence of a Creator-God is certainly not just possible and plausible, but the most stable evidence is given all around us in God’s creation, which is mere evolution would be a chaos like straggling cancer-cells.

I’m off now for a while
Yours
Bruno

 

[BrunoMaria]

Well, let’s wonder if the answers brought any of the many readers here a step further in their personal relation to God. In the so decisive relation GOD AND I
Do you think they will and the posts REALLY hit the point?

The point is, like it’s absolutely possible, that we see Jesus Christ face to face
TODAY
Then we can’t say like…
uuups - wait a minute - I got to get things sorted out. So You actually are Jesus Christ - You are GOD?! I guess you are - ain’t You.
’scuse me - I mean… down on earth I didn’t really get all this. I guess I did really, but well, you know - it’s actually hard to believe it all really.
And well - as a matter of fact I didn’t really do wrong did I?!
But all this about Jesus… (ah sorry that’s You)
and salvation and Your revealing of God and all that. Ok ok I didn’t really care too much about it all.

Mustn’t then Christ’s face alter from a loving smile, across raising eyebrows, to grim face. Would you then be surprised when you hear:
10.000 years in purgatory will give you enough time to think about My salvation!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I would guess that the people who generally read this forum are the type who are thinking about Jesus Christ all day long.
He still might send them to Purgatory, but it’s unlikely that they would be saying to Jesus that they didn’t really care too much about him while he was on earth.

 

[rose321]

I would say a way to “verify” the existence of God is through grace. Off course our God is a hidden God.

Respectfully opinion only and in pondering

That one statement is packed,giving one much toponder on.

There is nothing hidden that will not become manifest, would this be true?

One who seeks to>> verify>> the existence of God, have yet come to>>> know >>>>what is in front of us nor spiritually understood his teaching message?

Saint Therese of Lisieux my favorite Saint>> one I greatly admire >>> along with her short simple little sayings>>>> were>>>>> overflowing>>>> with divine>>>> Spiritual knowledge and understanding>>>>

Saint Therese’s of Lisieux needed >>>not to verify<<<the existence of Our Heavenly Father did she?

She beheld > his manifestation in all its glory and wonder>>>> fully >>>>>knowing>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing was hidden !!!

One who seeks to >> verify>> or need’s proof, if our Heavenly Father exist, >>>Asking>>>Has one not yet>>> >simply>>>> found him or know him yet > have they?

For no one lights a lamp puts it under a bushel, nor does he put it in a hidden place…unquote

Rather he puts it on a lamp stand so that everyone who comes in and goes out will see its light. unquote

Grace >is not something new Our Heavenly Father has been bestowing his Grace, along with his Mercy, Forgiveness>>> since the beginning of time upon whom he wills >>when>> he wills.

Peace

 

[BrunoMaria]

Tis_Bearself wrote:
I would guess that the people who generally read this forum are the type who are thinking about Jesus Christ all day long.​

Well, regular daily read- and answer-freaks aren’t meant.
Much more so, people are meant, who seek ansers for their unability to believe. People who wonder, why others do believe in God - do believe in Jesus Christ who is God in God.

I was often told:

I admire people who can and are able to believe and actually do believe in God. But I myself doubt strongly. I mean there are too many real intelligent people - take Stephen Hawking for just one, or take the Evolution. They aren’t all stupid!<

I usually reply:
Now what about all the millions who listen to the Pope on St. Peters-Circle/Vatican all around the year? Are they all stupid? What about the Millions who take looong ways to see the Pope hen he’s on mission around the world? Are they all stupid? What about the convinced believing Christians around the world, what about the monks and nuns……

But another thing are forums like this one:
Many even accidentally drop in and then suddenly interested read here and there. Some of them then either find a real help for belief - or are repelled, when they come across diversing answers among otherwise believing Christians.
Therefore I always warn to talk to carelessly when third persons listen.
Same goes when I for instance speak to a believer. If any bystanders hear it, we got to talk different from when we are among ourselves. For scraps of conversation might easily be misunderstood, mistaken and misinterpreted, even to the extent that such people then say: >Even Christians don’t really believe but much more so ponder about belief.<

It once happened to my about 10 years ago, that I said to a parish-member: Well, yes, this New-Testamental sentence rises some unsolved questions. A bystander heard this, and later said to me. >Ah get off it. If even YOU got bags of questions as to belief, then I rather stay off it.< (and off he went - I never saw him again - he lives far away from here, I got no address.).
I simply wasn’t careful enough as to who’s listening! I much regret that, but can never amend it. His disbelief goes partly on my account!

Yours
Bruno