God as a"baseball manager"

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I wasn’t sure where to put this…but as I was watching a baseball game last night I thought about the argument between the descriptions of a deeply personal God and the “clock winder” God.

At a crucial point in the game, the Camera focused on the Manager leaning over the railing and watching intently. At that point he could not influence what was going to happen. “Free Will” was at play between the Pitcher and catcher…the Batter and the fielders.
Yet - one could also see he was planning…what to do, how to adjust, what play to put on, who was warm in the bull-pen and so forth…

One can also recognize that the manager (and coaches) are intimately involved in the lives and actions of the players. From determining who is going to play where on the team, to working with individual players on specific problems and trying to coax the very best out of them.

So there seems to be this combination of “intimate” support and guidance…but also a more “distant” standing aside and watching things (free will) unfold.

So why do I post this?
Just to see what others might say about this idea…and if the analogy seems worthwhile… to possibly give others a tool to help in their apologetic work.

Peace
James
 
this analogy actually plays into another thread on the philosophy forum about intelligent design. I think it works but I would add this, the baseball manger has foreknowledge of how the game will play out and how his decisions will effect the outcome of the game, so he adjusts accordingly.
 
catholictiger said:
this analogy actually plays into another thread on the philosophy forum about intelligent design. I think it works but I would add this, the baseball manger has** foreknowledge **of how the game will play out and how his decisions will effect the outcome of the game, so he adjusts accordingly.
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Human baseball managers do not have this gift. Trust me.

Love the analogy! I think there’s a lot to unpack in it.
 
JRKH said:
I wasn’t sure where to put this…but as I was watching a baseball game last night I thought about the argument between the descriptions of a deeply personal God and the “clock winder” God.

At a crucial point in the game, the Camera focused on the Manager leaning over the railing and watching intently. At that point he could not influence what was going to happen. “Free Will” was at play between the Pitcher and catcher…the Batter and the fielders.
Yet - one could also see he was planning…what to do, how to adjust, what play to put on, who was warm in the bull-pen and so forth…

One can also recognize that the manager (and coaches) are intimately involved in the lives and actions of the players. From determining who is going to play where on the team, to working with individual players on specific problems and trying to coax the very best out of them.

So there seems to be this combination of “intimate” support and guidance…but also a more “distant” standing aside and watching things (free will) unfold.

So why do I post this?
Just to see what others might say about this idea…and if the analogy seems worthwhile… to possibly give others a tool to help in their apologetic work.

Peace
James
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Baseball at its best is really good for making spiritual analogies! 👍 I love this!

Here’s a baseball/Catholicism metaphor thread I posted which you might enjoy: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=775223 🙂
 
God is deeply personal. He is not the baseball manager or the great kick-starter.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
God is deeply personal. He is not the baseball manager or the great kick-starter.

Peace,
Ed
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Analogies fall short at some point, but I think James’s analogy is apt (and entertaining). And he clarified that the analogy only relates to “intimate support and guidance” while allowing players free will. The Father/Son parenting analogy is similar.

I am hoping God will step in to help the Astros this season…

http://cdn.mlbmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/600476_10101016070897740_860479787_n.jpg

[For non-baseball fans - the Astros are no longer in the NL Central]

.
 
Creation is the gift of selfhood to that which had no self. This is imaged in the creation of a people which was not a people, and the creation of a self in Christ where before there had been only the incoherence, the nothingness, of sin. On God’s part, it is imaged in the Incarnation and Passion, where God’s power is exercised in a “self-emptying” (see Phil. 2.7), not in a self assertion (not, at least, as we might understand such).

The inner meaning of creation, of God’s exercise of creative power, is not simply that other things appear, but that God imparts the true gift of selfhood where there had only been one self before, namely, Godself. Whatever else it is, creation is a self-emptying on God’s part, a making things with their own proper autonomy: “For by the very circumstance of their having been created, all things are endowed with their own stability, truth, goodness, proper laws, and order” (Gaudium et Spes 36, cited by John Paul II, “Created Things Have a Legitimate Autonomy,” in A Catechesis on the Creed, vol. 1, God, Father and Creator. This does not mean that they can exist without God. In fact, they are totally dependent on God’s continual gift of self-hood, continuously ceded, continuously offered, but it does mean that it is a true gift, continuously given fully without stinting, the generation in love of myriad other selves who may enjoy themselves precisely as gifts from the Creator, as much as their proper nature permits.

To know God’s creative power is to understand oneself as a gift truly given, not repented, utterly and perfectly and continuously willed. It is to praise the Creator for this gift. But apart from faith this power looks like powerlessness. It is the Resurrection of Christ which interprets it definitively as an act of power, rather than weakness, but this is the subject for another catechesis. For now, the point is that in faith we enter into the mystery of God’s creative power, and see that even in what seems to be his powerlessness or absence, the form that divine power takes. For without a certain “absence” of God, without sufficient “room” made, there could be no truly autonomous creations which were truly “themselves.” Cavadini
 
stewstew03 said:
Analogies fall short at some point, but I think James’s analogy is apt (and entertaining). And he clarified that the analogy only relates to “intimate support and guidance” while allowing players free will. The Father/Son parenting analogy is similar.

I am hoping God will step in to help the Astros this season…

http://cdn.mlbmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/600476_10101016070897740_860479787_n.jpg

[For non-baseball fans - the Astros are no longer in the NL Central]

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this is to funny
 
stewstew03 said:
Analogies fall short at some point, but I think James’s analogy is apt (and entertaining). And he clarified that the analogy only relates to “intimate support and guidance” while allowing players free will. The Father/Son parenting analogy is similar.

I am hoping God will step in to help the Astros this season…

http://cdn.mlbmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/600476_10101016070897740_860479787_n.jpg

[For non-baseball fans - the Astros are no longer in the NL Central]

.
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I’m a Pirates fan…I feel your pain.
 
3DOCTORS said:
I sooooo want to see the Cubs win the World Series before I die…:cool:
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The Cubs get the second pick in this years’ draft. MLB trade rumors has it that they’ll draft either of these two top college pitchers, **Appel or Gray, ** one will be available:

mlbtraderumors.com/2013/04/cubs-likely-to-draft-appel-or-gray.html

While today’s Cub news isn’t that good - the future may be brighter. Hence, I give you this song.
**(To the tune of “Put on Your Old Grey Bonnet”)
**
Put on your old Cub “bonnet” with the blue color on it
And we’ll go draft Appel – or draft Gray …
and with the guy we’re getting we’ll soon be forgetting
All the Cubs we have to-daaaaayyyy!!
Click to expand...
Actually, bit by bit, the Cubs are retooling. Last year and this management hasn’t given Dale Sveum and Jamie Quirk much to work with – selling off its stars last year, waiting for the young guys to ripen this year. But things can turn around fast in baseball.

Look at last years’ Orioles and A’s - who knew? And the 2012 World Series was between the NL’s third best record (Giants) and the AL’s SEVENTH best record (Tigers).

“HEY, HEY, Holy Mackerel.” “Hey Chicago whattaya say …” etc. < inside Cub stuff

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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