God as omnipotent.

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Can God make a stone that he himself cannot lift?

Yes or no…
either way he falls short of omnipotence.
My friend told me an asnwer something along these lines:
Consider the man who has a special power to get rid of any sickness that he has, and has the power of inflicting any disease to himself.
Now consider the man who has the power to never get a disease and never die.

Who is more powerful?
The first one, because he can do more (i.e. get rid or infect disease)?
Or the second one, because though he cannot do “more” than the first one, his powers actually help him.
any other takes?
 
The answer (which is “yes and no”) does not highlight a shortcoming of God, but rather a shortcoming of our comprehension of the Infinite.
 
This is known as the “boulder paradox” and is just that: a paradox.
 
J1Priest said:
Can God make a stone that he himself cannot lift?

Yes or no…
either way he falls short of omnipotence.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. Omnipotence doesn’t require the ability to do things that are self-contradictory. If God is omnipotent, he is the irresistible force. In a universe in which exists an irresistible force, an immoveable object is absurd.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
No.

Since God is omnipotent, a boulder being too heavy for him to lif is self-contradictory nonsense. Nonsense is not a ‘thing’, therefore it does not contradict omnipotence to say he cannot create it. After all, how much power is in nothing?
 
J1Priest said:
Can God make a stone that he himself cannot lift?..
Click to expand...
I agree with the replies just above.

Our reply is that God can indeed do all things, but self-contradiction is not a thing. God cannot make a four-sided triangle, because the terms contradict each other and cancel out. A four-sided triangle is meaningless; it is not a thing at all, it is nothing. A weight that an almighty Being cannot life is as much a contradiction in terms as a four-sided triangle. It too is nothing. And (to give an old text a new emphasis) nothing is impossible to God.

(For more info, read “Theology for Beginners” by Frank Sheed)
 
Omnipotence is traditionally seen as a divine attribute which means God has infinite power. ‘Power’ can mean a number of things, but in theology we might speak of God’s power as being his ability to execute whatever he wills. Theistic thinkers have thought a lot about divine power and whether it is infinite and whether this infinity is qualified in some way.

Some theistic thinkers hold God can be omnipotent, but being omnipotent does not mean God can do absolutely everything, i.e. things which are logically impossible (making 2 + 2 = 9, make it rain and not rain at the same time, change the past, etc). Others believe God’s omnipotent power can overcome all limits, including logically impossibility (something Descartes believed). Some thinkers, particularly in the 20th century, placed limits on God’s power, especially in light of evils like the Holocaust.

To me, the problem of evil presents the biggest problem for classical divine omnipotence. It is extremely hard to see how something like the Holocaust was for the greater good of humankind (especially as so many religious believers died) or the universe. The free will defence doesn’t seem to work either, as even preserving human will should not come at the cost of countless millions of human lives. Added to this is the ongoing suffering and misery endured in the world in countless ways such as disease, poverty, rampant transnational crime, rape and murder, warfare, and so on. It seems evil that God who is powerful enough to make the universe, at the same time sits by and does nothing while 800 million people live on $1 a day or less, millions die from AIDS and Malaria, and so on.
 
J1Priest said:
Can God make a stone that he himself cannot lift?

Yes or no…
either way he falls short of omnipotence.

any other takes?
Click to expand...
Well since omnipotence basiclly means the power to do what one wants. The answer to your question is yes. If for some reason God was sitting around one day and thought to himself " hey i want to make a rock so big i can’t lift it." Then did so, he still keep his all omnipotent title. Because he wanted to make that rock so big he couldn’t lift it. but if no matter how big he made that rock he could still lift it. then he wouldn’t be. Really I don’t see what the deal is about thisquestion and why so many people have trouble with it. Same as with the omniscient Thing. I’ve been asked how the fact that God is omniscient doesn’t destroy the theroy of free will. They say " How can we have free will if God knows what will do. God knwoing what we will do means our paths have been laid out for us and we have no choice in our actions>" Simple really . Just because someone knows what you are about to do doesn’t mean that they are controlling what you are about to do. Example. I’m going to type the letter A 3 times.
AAA Now you knew i was gonna do it. but did you make me do it? NO see so simple.
 
Greg27 said:
Some theistic thinkers hold God can be omnipotent, but being omnipotent does not mean God can do absolutely everything, i.e. things which are logically impossible (making 2 + 2 = 9, make it rain and not rain at the same time,
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I’ve seen it rain yet not rain at the same time. In summer here it gets so hot that the rain evaporates before it hits the ground.
(sometimes)
 
mlchance said:
No you haven’t. Your next statement shows you haven’t (emphasis added):

– Mark L. Chance.
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Actually it is raining yet not. Rain is falling from clouds above me. I say look its raining . yet i dont get wet so it isn’t raining.
 
The definition of rain doesn’t include you getting wet or water hitting the ground. If it rains over the ocean, no water hits the ground. It’s not raining? If it rains but your inside and don’t get wet, it’s not raining? Absurdities both.

And, again, you refute yourself (emphasis added):
latin_rite said:
Actually it is raining yet not. Rain is falling from clouds above me. I say look its raining . yet i dont get wet so it isn’t raining.
Click to expand...
– Mark L. Chance.
 
What are you talking about? Did I say that if I’m in side and not getting wet it’s not raining? Am I talking about it raining over the ocean? No. I’m not. I’m talking about rain falling from the sky. But not getting anything wet hence what I said. It is raining, but then again it is not. Hence the Rain without raining. If it isn’t raining when a cloud drops its load then when does rain become rain? Does rain have to hit the ground to be rain? Does rain have to wet anything to be rain? Maybe your theory is the absurd one?
 
You refute yourself again:
latin_rite said:
No. I’m not. I’m talking about rain falling from the sky.
Click to expand...
At this point, not only is your argument absurd, but so is any further discussion of the absurdity. Attempts at being clever are no substitute for actual rationality. Rather, such attempts are just sophistry.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
J1Priest said:
Can God make a stone that he himself cannot lift?

Yes or no…
either way he falls short of omnipotence.
Click to expand...
As others have pointed out, the question is esentially nonsensical, but there is a different sense in which the answer is a simple yes. The muscles in Jesus’ body did not have infinite strength. He stumbled multiple time while carrying the cross. Therefore there were rocks he could not lift. Who created those rocks? God. Since Jesus is God, God created a rock God could not lift.😃
 
mlchance said:
You refute yourself again:

At this point, not only is your argument absurd, but so is any further discussion of the absurdity. Attempts at being clever are no substitute for actual rationality. Rather, such attempts are just sophistry.

– Mark L. Chance.
Click to expand...
Ok… but no need to get insulting just because i proved you wrong.
 
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