God is “masculine,” and other sexual symbolism in Catholicism

[sdeco]

I have a hard time understanding the masculine/feminine symbolism in Catholicism. It seems very arbitrary to me, like they are extrapolating way too much from the fact that women get pregnant and men don’t. It also seems like it puts men above women.

I don’t understand why God is “masculine” and not “feminine,” or why he has to be associated with either gender at all. Why are we the “bride” of Christ instead of just the “spouse?” If God is “masculine” and we mere humans are “feminine,” how does that not put men in a superior position to women? I’ve heard that God is “masculine” because creation originated with him like it does from a father. But you could make an equally arbitrary argument about how God is actually “feminine.” You could say, for example, that God cares for us the way a mother cares for the child in her womb, and the whole universe is like God’s “womb,” and therefore we should call God “mother.” Yes, that’s a strange argument, but the argument for God being masculine is equally strange to me.

Yes, the only fully human person who never sinned (Mary) was a woman, but the only person who was human and divine (Jesus) was a man. Again, men are in the higher position. Divinity is associated with masculinity.

Can anyone explain this?

 

[Sarcelle]

I have a hard time understanding the masculine/feminine symbolism in Catholicism. It seems very arbitrary to me, like they are extrapolating way too much from the fact that women get pregnant and men don’t. It also seems like it puts men above women.

I don’t understand why God is “masculine” and not “feminine,” or why he has to be associated with either gender at all. Why are we the “bride” of Christ instead of just the “spouse?” If God is “masculine” and we mere humans are “feminine,” how does that not put men in a superior position to women? I’ve heard that God is “masculine” because creation originated with him like it does from a father. But you could make an equally arbitrary argument about how God is actually “feminine.” You could say, for example, that God cares for us the way a mother cares for the child in her womb, and the whole universe is like God’s “womb,” and therefore we should call God “mother.” Yes, that’s a strange argument, but the argument for God being masculine is equally strange to me.

Yes, the only fully human person who never sinned (Mary) was a woman, but the only person who was human and divine (Jesus) was a man. Again, men are in the higher position. Divinity is associated with masculinity.

Can anyone explain this?

Both masculinity and femininity are of God. However, in relation to creation, God is masculine. His role, with respect to creation, is masculine. Masculine takes a more active role while feminine takes a more passive, receptive role. They are different, so you cannot say one is superior to the other. By the way, masculinity and femininity go beyond merely male and female.

 

[MichaelHowling]

What was the VERY last thing God created? Woman. Woman was the crown of the crown of creation

Did u see how God introduces Eve. He brings her to Adam…almost like a Father giving away the bride as if to say “this…this is my most priceless possession, the apple of my eye”.

Oh trust me! You women are loved and honored!

Your very bodies are a TRUE temple, like the one found in scripture…so sacred and holy only the high priest (your spouse) can enter and a certain time for the right purpose to SERVE there if you will…this may be going to far…but even physically your female anatomy points towards this with the “curtain” you have. You are held and made in the HIGHEST regard!

Who is the highest creature EVER to be created … Mary! a woman!

I suggest you look into “theology of the body”. There’s a GREAT cd out called “woman Gods masterpiece.”

The reason for the masculine and feminine distinction is really important. The male and female are EQUAL in dignity but sooo different we could almost be considered a different species.

The man is the initiator…God is ALWAYS the initiator. He always makes the first move and this is why He is symbolized as Father/man. We the church are the receiver…we are to loving accept the gift and offer ourselves back in return.

God bless

 

[Gorgias]

It also seems like it puts men above women.

I would argue that this isn’t the case at all. Human societies have favored men over women, without a doubt… but has God?

I don’t understand why God is “masculine” and not “feminine,” or why he has to be associated with either gender at all.

God isn’t masculine; nor is God feminine. However, there are ways that God has described (his) nature in (his) self-revelation that identify (him) as ‘Father’. Does that mean that God is ‘masculine’ in the way that a human man is ‘masculine’? Of course not. Does that mean that there is a certain truth in describing God as ‘Father’? If we are to believe God’s self-revelation in the Bible, then ‘yes’.

Why are we the “bride” of Christ instead of just the “spouse?”

Is the Incarnate Jesus not a man? Is his spouse not a ‘bride’?

If God is “masculine” and we mere humans are “feminine,” how does that not put men in a superior position to women?

God isn’t.
We humans aren’t.
And therefore, men aren’t “in a superior position to women.”

Yes, the only fully human person who never sinned (Mary) was a woman, but the only person who was human and divine (Jesus) was a man. Again, men are in the higher position.

As an incarnate being, Jesus necessarily had to be ‘man’ or ‘woman’. If Jesus had been born a woman, would that imply that women “are in the higher position”? No… that doesn’t make any sense, either.

Divinity is associated with masculinity.

Jesus is human and divine. In His human nature, Jesus is a man. That does not mean that divinity is masculine, or even that masculinity (on a physical level) is associated with divinity.

 

[Sarcelle]

What was the VERY last thing God created? Woman. Woman was the crown of the crown of creation

Did u see how God introduces Eve. He brings her to Adam…almost like a Father giving away the bride as if to say “this…this is my most priceless possession, the apple of my eye”.

Oh trust me! You women are loved and honored!

Your very bodies are a TRUE temple, like the one found in scripture…so sacred and holy only the high priest (your spouse) can enter and a certain time for the right purpose to SERVE there if you will…this may be going to far…but even physically your female anatomy points towards this with the “curtain” you have. You are held and made in the HIGHEST regard!

Who is the highest creature EVER to be created … Mary! a woman!

I suggest you look into “theology of the body”. There’s a GREAT cd out called “woman Gods masterpiece.”

The reason for the masculine and feminine distinction is really important. The male and female are EQUAL in dignity but sooo different we could almost be considered a different species.

The man is the initiator…God is ALWAYS the initiator. He always makes the first move and this is why He is symbolized as Father/man. We the church are the receiver…we are to loving accept the gift and offer ourselves back in return.

God bless

I disagree. Woman as the crown of all creation is not Catholic doctrine.

In fact the Bible says man, not woman is the glory of God. Woman, on the other hand, is the glory of man.

 

[MichaelHowling]

Man as in all mankind

 

[GaryTaylor]

Can anyone explain this?

I think its how you view the whole picture, good response’s above, consider this also.

Apparitions of Mary are held as evidence of her continuing active presence in the life of the church, through which she “cares for the brethren of her son who still journey on earth.”

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMarian_apparition&ei=VwmrVMTkLcudNp_ugZgH&usg=AFQjCNGNdRYzL5eCkxkoOEGWCKhjsQU51A

 

[simpleas]

Man as in all mankind

Mankind is male and female…not separate.

I don’t think females were made after males. I would think that they were made together, as written in Gen 1.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I have a hard time understanding the masculine/feminine symbolism in Catholicism. It seems very arbitrary to me, like they are extrapolating way too much from the fact that women get pregnant and men don’t. It also seems like it puts men above women.

I don’t understand why God is “masculine” and not “feminine,” or why he has to be associated with either gender at all. Why are we the “bride” of Christ instead of just the “spouse?” If God is “masculine” and we mere humans are “feminine,” how does that not put men in a superior position to women? I’ve heard that God is “masculine” because creation originated with him like it does from a father. But you could make an equally arbitrary argument about how God is actually “feminine.” You could say, for example, that God cares for us the way a mother cares for the child in her womb, and the whole universe is like God’s “womb,” and therefore we should call God “mother.” Yes, that’s a strange argument, but the argument for God being masculine is equally strange to me.

Yes, the only fully human person who never sinned (Mary) was a woman, but the only person who was human and divine (Jesus) was a man. Again, men are in the higher position. Divinity is associated with masculinity.

Can anyone explain this?

Wisdom or “Sophia” is always female in the Bible. Wisdom is a central topic in the “sapiential” books, i.e. Proverbs, Psalms, Song of Songs, Ecclesiastes, Book of Wisdom, Wisdom of Sirach, and to some extent Baruch.

Jesus directly mentions Wisdom in the Gospel of Matthew:

The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

—Matthew 11:19

The Epistle of James (James 3:13-18; cf. James 1:5) distinguishes between two kinds of wisdom. One is a false wisdom, which is characterized as “earthly, sensual, devilish” and is associated with strife and contention. The other is the ‘wisdom that comes from above’:

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

—James 3:17
There’s a lot more, but you get the picture.

 

[truetofaith]

I have a hard time understanding the masculine/feminine symbolism in Catholicism. It seems very arbitrary to me, like they are extrapolating way too much from the fact that women get pregnant and men don’t. It also seems like it puts men above women.

I don’t understand why God is “masculine” and not “feminine,” or why he has to be associated with either gender at all. Why are we the “bride” of Christ instead of just the “spouse?” If God is “masculine” and we mere humans are “feminine,” how does that not put men in a superior position to women? I’ve heard that God is “masculine” because creation originated with him like it does from a father. But you could make an equally arbitrary argument about how God is actually “feminine.” You could say, for example, that God cares for us the way a mother cares for the child in her womb, and the whole universe is like God’s “womb,” and therefore we should call God “mother.” Yes, that’s a strange argument, but the argument for God being masculine is equally strange to me.

Yes, the only fully human person who never sinned (Mary) was a woman, but the only person who was human and divine (Jesus) was a man. Again, men are in the higher position. Divinity is associated with masculinity.

Can anyone explain this?

"Cause the Bible (God’s Word ) says He! If God was a woman how would Jesus be born

 

[edarlitrix]

While the Bible and Catholicism generally refer to God as male, there are several verses describing God as female… dunno if this is useful to you, but I find it interesting.

Deuteronomy 32:18 God who gives birth

“You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.”

Isaiah 66:13 God as a comforting mother

God: “As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.”

Isaiah 49:15 God compared to a nursing mother

God: “Can a woman forget her nursing child, or show no compassion for the child of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you.”

Psalm 123:2-3 God compared to a woman

“As the eyes of a servant looks to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to you, YHWH, until you show us your mercy!”

Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34 God as a Mother Hen

Jesus: “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!”

womensordination.org/resources/female-images-of-god-in-the-bible/

 

[truetofaith]

Mankind is male and female…not separate.

I don’t think females were made after males. I would think that they were made together, as written in Gen 1.

God put Adam into a deep sleep then performed the first operation and took Adam’s rib & formed Eve…they weren’t made together.

 

[edarlitrix]

Also you might like to check this out: christianthinktank.com/femalex.html

 

[Lucretius]

The idea that men are “active” and women are “passive”, is actually quite Jewish. IIRC, the Hebrew word used in Genesis to describe Adam literally translates as “the piercer”, while the one that describes Eve literally translates to “the pierced one” (I can’t read Hebrew: a Jewish person explained this to me: maybe one of our knowledgeable Jewish brothers can make this clearer?)

In the same way, God is the “piercer” of our souls, aka “the piercer ones”. He pierces our hardened hearts, so that with His Grace, He brings in us new everlasting life, just as a woman is pierced by a man in order to bring new life (a child).

God uses analogies of things we know of to describe Himself and his relation to us. But since sex is fundamentally physical, as well as the fact that, as St. Paul writes, “God is a spirit” and therefore does not have a physical body (Christ’s divine nature does not have a physical body, but His human nature of course does), the Church has concluded that God does not have gender.

If English had a gender-neutral singular pronoun for persons (using “it” to describe something personal (like a human or God) is usually considered insulting or de-personalizing), the confusion about God’s gender (or lack of) would be less. So, we instead use “he” as the traditional pronoun for a personal singular noun, like how we use “man” or “mankind” traditionally to describe human beings all together or in general, which creates even more of a mess in our politically correct society :whacky:

In other words, gender/sex only makes sense in regards to humans and other animals, not God.

However, I point out that when God incarnated, He was a male human being, which is no accident ( I doubt this choice is simply due to the fact that in a “male dominated” culture, his message would be more acceptable if He were a man, since He DESIGNED that specific culture prudently). Furthermore, Christ calls the first Person in the Trinity “my Father” and even tells us to call God “Abba” (Hebrew for Father). St. Luke calls the Holy Spirit a “He” in Acts as well.

So based on Scripture and Tradition, I would conclude that we should call God a “he”, keeping in mind what is taught above. Finally, following Bishop Sheen’s advice, we should not only think about what someone says, but also (and more importantly) think about WHY someone says it. I noticed then that most of these objections about God being masculine are based on false modern feminist philosophy anyway, which is the same motivation as the objections that some have with the “all-male” priesthood. Our culture is greatly influenced by modernism, so it’s only natural that it rubs a little bit off on us. I’m still trying to get out of the incorrect modern mindset myself. It takes YEARS :banghead:

I pray that I have charitably helped you in your understanding of this Church teaching.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[CHRISTINE77]

The idea that men are “active” and women are “passive”, is actually quite Jewish. IIRC, the Hebrew word used in Genesis to describe Adam literally translates as “the piercer”, while the one that describes Eve literally translates to “the pierced one” (I can’t read Hebrew: a Jewish person explained this to me: maybe one of our knowledgeable Jewish brothers can make this clearer?)

In the same way, God is the “piercer” of our souls, aka “the piercer ones”. He pierces our hardened hearts, so that with His Grace, He brings in us new everlasting life, just as a woman is pierced by a man in order to bring new life (a child).

God uses analogies of things we know of to describe Himself and his relation to us. But since sex is fundamentally physical, as well as the fact that, as St. Paul writes, “God is a spirit” and therefore does not have a physical body (Christ’s divine nature does not have a physical body, but His human nature of course does), the Church has concluded that God does not have gender.

If English had a gender-neutral singular pronoun for persons (using “it” to describe something personal (like a human or God) is usually considered insulting or de-personalizing), the confusion about God’s gender (or lack of) would be less. So, we instead use “he” as the traditional pronoun for a personal singular noun, like how we use “man” or “mankind” traditionally to describe human beings all together or in general, which creates even more of a mess in our politically correct society :whacky:

In other words, gender/sex only makes sense in regards to humans and other animals, not God.

However, I point out that when God incarnated, He was a male human being, which is no accident ( I doubt this choice is simply due to the fact that in a “male dominated” culture, his message would be more acceptable if He were a man, since He DESIGNED that specific culture prudently). Furthermore, Christ calls the first Person in the Trinity “my Father” and even tells us to call God “Abba” (Hebrew for Father). St. Luke calls the Holy Spirit a “He” in Acts as well.

So based on Scripture and Tradition, I would conclude that we should call God a “he”, keeping in mind what is taught above. Finally, following Bishop Sheen’s advice, we should not only think about what someone says, but also (and more importantly) think about WHY someone says it. I noticed then that most of these objections about God being masculine are based on false modern feminist philosophy anyway, which is the same motivation as the objections that some have with the “all-male” priesthood. Our culture is greatly influenced by modernism, so it’s only natural that it rubs a little bit off on us. I’m still trying to get out of the incorrect modern mindset myself. It takes YEARS :banghead:

I pray that I have charitably helped you in your understanding of this Church teaching.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

nice post!

 

[Frere]

I have a hard time understanding the masculine/feminine symbolism in Catholicism. It seems very arbitrary to me, like they are extrapolating way too much from the fact that women get pregnant and men don’t. It also seems like it puts men above women.

I don’t understand why God is “masculine” and not “feminine,” or why he has to be associated with either gender at all. Why are we the “bride” of Christ instead of just the “spouse?” If God is “masculine” and we mere humans are “feminine,” how does that not put men in a superior position to women? I’ve heard that God is “masculine” because creation originated with him like it does from a father. But you could make an equally arbitrary argument about how God is actually “feminine.” You could say, for example, that God cares for us the way a mother cares for the child in her womb, and the whole universe is like God’s “womb,” and therefore we should call God “mother.” Yes, that’s a strange argument, but the argument for God being masculine is equally strange to me.

Yes, the only fully human person who never sinned (Mary) was a woman, but the only person who was human and divine (Jesus) was a man. Again, men are in the higher position. Divinity is associated with masculinity.

Can anyone explain this?

I think it mostly depends on original languages the Church started in, like in Middle East and Europe. There are language in the world which present God as neutral in gender. I know because I am from Africa and in my original language, there can never be a debate about whether God is masculine of feminine, even among Catholics, we are majority catholic and christian.

We I realized this, I understood why knowing several language is good. There are several broken realities of our humanity hidden in other languages.

God bless!

 

[Lucretius]

nice post!

Thank You!

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I think it mostly depends on original languages the Church started in, like in Middle East and Europe. There are language in the world which present God as neutral in gender. I know because I am from Africa and in my original language, there can never be a debate about whether God is masculine of feminine, even among Catholics, we are majority catholic and christian.

We I realized this, I understood why knowing several language is good. There are several broken realities of our humanity hidden in other languages.

God bless!

In Africa is God considered neutral in gender?