God is everything, so God is evil?

[hamburglar]

Some of my friends and I were walking along, and one of them commented how they don’t like the snow in March. I made the quirky comment “all weather is good, for it comes from God.”

Anyway, one of my friends said “how do we know what is good?” And then she said “If God created everything, and everything is from God, and since there is evil, God must be evil.”

I simplified her argument into a logic statement (If A then B, etc.) and pointed that her logic was not valid. She did not like this answer

So, what is another way to answer this? Also, she also said something about how do we know what is good and what is evil.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Evil, like cold and dark, is not a thing, but an absence of a thing.

A friend once developed a device to pace a light spot up and down swimming lanes to pace the swimmers. It was found that the light was not very visible. They needed a dark spot - but dark cannot be created. One can only exclude light.

Dark is just the absence of light.
Cold is just the absence of heat.
Evil is just the absence of good.

They may be unpleasant, and even dangerous and harmful, but they cannot be created except in the sense that one creates a vacancy or emptiness by removing things.

 

[Schultzz]

Evil, like cold and dark, is not a thing, but an absence of a thing.

A friend once developed a device to pace a light spot up and down swimming lanes to pace the swimmers. It was found that the light was not very visible. They needed a dark spot - but dark cannot be created. One can only exclude light.

Dark is just the absence of light.
Cold is just the absence of heat.
Evil is just the absence of good.

They may be unpleasant, and even dangerous and harmful, but they cannot be created except in the sense that one creates a vacancy or emptiness by removing things.

Hi Joe,
You’re everywhere!
I guess your friend’s invention happened before lazer light was developed.

 

[BlaineTog]

Anyway, one of my friends said “how do we know what is good?” And then she said “If God created everything, and everything is from God, and since there is evil, God must be evil.”

God creates and sustains everything, but he doesn’t do everything, and evil is an action, not a creation.

 

[j1s2a3]

Its called pride and Satan became Satan of his abuse of Fathers free will that was instilled.Evil is result of this will of Satan to become higher than Father in good which resulted in evil since created beings can’t be above the Creator.

 

[Benedictus]

Dark is just the absence of light.
Cold is just the absence of heat.
Evil is just the absence of good.

How do you know that good isn’t the absence of evil?

 

[homeloan]

Its called pride and Satan became Satan of his abuse of Fathers free will that was instilled.Evil is result of this will of Satan to become higher than Father in good which resulted in evil since created beings can’t be above the Creator.

God lacked the power to obliterate Satan? Then Satan has power that God can’t subdue?.. except maybe in the sweet bye & bye…?

 

[fhansen]

God lacked the power to obliterate Satan? Then Satan has power that God can’t subdue?.. except maybe in the sweet bye & bye…?

But you must know the CCs answer to that question so a better question would be, Was it just, in the first place, to allow a freedom so radical that evil can play out its’ hand- even if only for a given period of time?

 

[Steadfast_love]

I just ask:
Suppose some fellow commited suicide, say he shot himself in the head. Obviously that’s an evil thing but did God create it? Did God create “shot himself in the head?”

It is our actions that are evil. God did not create our actions.

 

[mike7795]

Some of my friends and I were walking along, and one of them commented how they don’t like the snow in March. I made the quirky comment “all weather is good, for it comes from God.”

Anyway, one of my friends said “how do we know what is good?” And then she said “If God created everything, and everything is from God, and since there is evil, God must be evil.”

I simplified her argument into a logic statement (If A then B, etc.) and pointed that her logic was not valid. She did not like this answer

So, what is another way to answer this? Also, she also said something about how do we know what is good and what is evil.

This, to me, is the essence of The Fall.

In this thread, I saw someone post that evil is an action. It is not an action. Evil is simply a word.

Once Adam and Eve had the knowledge of good and evil – once they began to differentiate – paradise was lost. Until that point, things just WERE.

Where are good and evil in your sleep when the mind is not active and making distinctions/judgments? Of course, these things don’t exist, so they are merely concepts.

A small child doesn’t know good and evil because they don’t have the language to describe it, so how can they exist as concrete, actual entities? These things come into existence only after the child has learned the words for these things. Hence, Jesus’ statement that the Kingdom belongs to the children, and we must become like a child to enter. Again, just as it is with a small child, “good” is the natural order of life, until we learn the idea of evil.

I’ve never seen an evil 6 month old child. Have you? But teach them the word, and teach them the concepts “I” and “mine” and now we have “evil.”

Regards,
Mike

 

[agangbern]

God is everything? Everything that is good, not including evil.

 

[homeloan]

But you must know the CCs answer to that question so a better question would be, Was it just, in the first place, to allow a freedom so radical that evil can play out its’ hand- even if only for a given period of time?

Ah, but to entertain the idea, even rarely, that it could be unjust would be heresy according to CCC, would it not?

 

[BlaineTog]

Ah, but to entertain the idea, even rarely, that it could be unjust would be heresy according to CCC, would it not?

Asking a question isn’t heresy. Only holding a position.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

How do you know that good isn’t the absence of evil?

Because I am not a sociopath.

 

[fhansen]

Ah, but to entertain the idea, even rarely, that it could be unjust would be heresy according to CCC, would it not?

God doesn’t want us to turn off our brains. A faith which is not questioned isn’t faith-it’s just a “said” faith and doesn’t impress God at all. The Church’s message to us is a voice we can choose to listen to-or not. For me, it was a faint voice among other voices vying for my attention but it became louder and clearer as I allowed it to speak to me. But I am the one who has to decide whether this voice is true-and not even because the Church says so but because it “rings true” to me and coincides with something inside which recognizes that truth. We are allowed to decide between good and evil. Only God is perfect enough never to sin. The higher the level of being-the closer a created being is to being “like God”- the greater the tendency to sin because greater is the freedom the being must have in order to be “like God”. The less the freedom, as with animals who act from instinct alone, or as with mentally handicapped humans, the less culpable the being is and less is their tendency to sin. Our “greatness”, or potential for it, lies in this ability to choose between good and evil. Would it be better to so limit freedom that true moral evil could not exist? That is a question which only beings like ourselves can ask and only we can answer. It is the question of whether or not existence is better than non-existence. We get to choose whether we’ll recognize and embrace the good in life: life itself, love, kindness, beauty, health, order, knowledge, but most of all love- or whether we’ll embrace selfishness, nihilism, utilitarianism, pettiness, clinging to our lives here on earth which we’ll lose in the end anyway. That’s why Jesus said that in order to gain life we must be willing to lose it. For me, although the struggle is not over, it’s all worth it. People like Augustine and Aquinas gained faith by being free thinkers. The more you seek to know God-to seek understanding-to give Him the benefit of the doubt-the more He’ll reward you with faith and understanding and even direct experiences of Himself. But turning off your brain is anathema to all this. We’re supposed to use our brains -what Church teachings offer is guidance. It requires some humility but if we truly endeavor to do this, God will respond to it. It just so happens to be that way.

Adams problem was that he wanted to transcend even having a choice between good and evil. By eating of the fruit, he chose to believe that he, like God, could not sin-that he was above sinning. To this day, we hate to admit our sins, let alone our capacity for sinning. Adam chose self-righteousness for us- a “man-based” righteousness instead of a God-based one. A righteousness that says, “I* can’t* be wrong”. Witness this the next time you cling to your own “rightness” even as you know you’re losing an argument. We prefer to be right. Ever wonder why?-Or what difference it could possibly make? People kill other people defending this stupid “right”. This is why Christians turn from self-centered to God-centered righteousness.-or at least this should be the reason. We can shake our fist at God but one way or the other the freedom to choose between good and evil resides within us. Gods’ decision is already made. We obtain greatness-holiness-by deciding for ourselves.

 

[Ghosty]

How do you know that good isn’t the absence of evil?

Evil requires good to exist, but good does not require evil. Every existence is, insofar as it exists, good because it’s a perfection. Something is made more and better by “not being nothing”. Evil at the very least requires that much good in order for itself to be; you don’t have an evil man without there first being a man, and a man taken just on the most simple level is good, a perfection that rises above pure nothingness.

Something is evil insofar as it falls short of its proper perfection, but it can’t fall short of every perfection without ceasing to exist; someone who turns against God is evil, because they’re falling short of their proper perfection, but they can’t ever be absolutely evil since the good of existence is required for any evil to exist anyway. This means that even Satan, insofar as he exists and is willed by God to exist, is good.

So, in short, the complete absence of good isn’t evil, it’s nothing. The complete absence of evil isn’t nothing, it’s perfection. Therefore evil can only be the absence of good, the good of proper perfection, and not visa versa. Good always comes first, and is the foundation upon which everything is built.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Green_Tea]

hamburglar:

God is everything, so God is evil?

Assuming the first portion of the statement (“God is everything”), I think the disconnect between the first and second has to do with a sort of equivocation regarding the term “everything.” If God is everything, that does not mean God is identified in a simple way with any particular “thing” you could name. After all, particular identity functions on the basis of exclusion. When I say, “this is a table” I mean “this” as opposed to “that” and a table as opposed to a chair. In other words, when we make discrete determinations of identity, we do so on the basis of limitation and exclusion. However, the statement “God is everything” is precisely a rejection of the applicability of such determinations to God. The term “evil”, whatever else it means, means something which is not “good.” To say, “God is evil,” then, is to deny that God is everything.

What do you think?
Joe Kelley:

Evil, like cold and dark, is not a thing, but an absence of a thing.

I have never really understood this. From the perspective of a very specific and specialized scientific standpoint, I could see how you could say that “cold” and “dark” are not thing, but absences (I am not sure if that would be correct, but I could at least understand the argument). However, we are speaking in terms of ontology and morality here, and so we are concerned with existence as such. In lived experience, I don’t think that cold and dark are mere absences. On the contrary, I have often been in situations where the darkness “pressed in” upon me in a palpable way. Likewise, I have experienced being enveloped by darkness in a comforting manner. Often, cold “pierces” my clothes and chills me. In none of these cases are “cold” and “dark” absences. Likewise, evil does not seem to me to be an absence. On the contrary, it seems to me a real and active force or phenomenon. When a person murders another, that is not an absence; it is a presence.

 

[mike7795]

Assuming the first portion of the statement (“God is everything”), I think the disconnect between the first and second has to do with a sort of equivocation regarding the term “everything.” If God is everything, that does not mean God is identified in a simple way with any particular “thing” you could name. After all, particular identity functions on the basis of exclusion. When I say, “this is a table” I mean “this” as opposed to “that” and a table as opposed to a chair. In other words, when we make discrete determinations of identity, we do so on the basis of limitation and exclusion. However, the statement “God is everything” is precisely a rejection of the applicability of such determinations to God. The term “evil”, whatever else it means, means something which is not “good.” To say, “God is evil,” then, is to deny that God is everything.

What do you think?

This is why God cannot be defined in positive terms. We can only say what He is not. At last, after removing everything, you are left with pure Being, or as the author of the Cloud put it, everything you can say about God is contained in the word “is.”

…or, “I AM that I AM”

Mike

 

[homeloan]

Asking a question isn’t heresy. Only holding a position.

Ah, but therein lies the dilemma the Church must face:
http://www.cccs.uq.edu.au/images-content/heretics.jpg

Were the hapless victims of the Holy Inquisitor’s rack & fires only people looking for answers to complex questions, or were they Satan’s minions?


Who decides? Who decided? Does the Almighty allow those hapless victims into Paradise? What about their Inquisitors? Is Franciscan Pope Sixtus IV, who gave us the Feast of the Immaculate Conception, the Vatican Library, the Sistine Chapel, the Sistine Choir and the canonization of St. Bonaventure; but also gave us the Grand Inquisitor, Dominican Cardinal Tomas de Torquemata. Did Pope Sixtus’ good, prevail over the bad appointment of the Inquisitor?

What about Cardinal Torquemata, where is he spending his eternity? If some of his hapless victims went to Hell, even one soul, should Torquemata be rewarded with Heaven? What about Pope Sixtus IV?

Why should one asking a question that is based on a required belief, be considered a heretic for questioning that belief if it appears unfair, biased or way over-the-top?

It always seems to devolve into what I was told as a child, "There are some things you’re not supposed to know, but they will all be revealed in the sweet bye-&-bye.

If that is the only answer to come from the defenders of the Church, or of other denominations, isn’t it fair to ask why the Almighty would jury-rig the system like that? Would any of us do that to inferior beings?

The original topic is a battleground. Couldn’t the defenders expect the Almighty to show a little more revelation. Maybe a peek at one of the hold-cards if He wants to wait until the sweet bye-&-bye to show us His whole hand…?

 

[fhansen]

This is why God cannot be defined in positive terms. We can only say what He is not. At last, after removing everything, you are left with pure Being, or as the author of the Cloud put it, everything you can say about God is contained in the word “is.”

…or, “I AM that I AM”

Mike

Catholic theology, I believe, does not teach that God is everything-only that He created everything -other than Himself, of course. Since evil is the privation of some good that God created, He didn’t create evil, rather He allowed it for His purposes. The main reason we can speak of God in positive terms is because He chose to reveal Himself to us.