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Jvrlns
Guest
If God is infinite what are the consequences of that? Shouldn’t there be an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of intelligent beings in them? 
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Julian0404
Guest
If God is infinite what are the consequences of that? Glory be to the FATHER, the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT, as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be.
The consequences is that your soul will never die. Your body will die and will one day be reunited with your soul to live in eternal happiness or eternal separation (hell) from the INFINITE GOD.
Your time on earth is maybe 80 years. Your time in eternity cannot be measured, but put against your time on earth, your earthly existence is but a few miliseconds at best spread over eternity. However, for that very short period, GOD will grant you eternal joy, if you but Love, Honor and Serve HIM all the short days you live on earth.
Shouldn’t there be an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of intelligent beings in them?
Keep it simple. You and GOD and today this moment. You will not be quizzed on the number of other universes or intelligent beings on the day of your judgement. Love GOD and demonstrate that love in your everyday walk. That is keeping it simple.
manygift1spirit
New member
To answer your questions, “infinite” has many, many shades of meaning both in rigorous mathematics and in philosophy. So it depends.
God certainly could make an infinite void with only a finite area of “interesting” creation, which would give you a “no”. But if His non-void creation was “uniformly” created (the probabilist’s rigorous way of stating the common premise which easily leads to the answer), then “yes” those things will happen (although even here, “will happen” has a technical meaning which is not exactly identical to what you might think).
So again, it depends. But to get a meaningful answer, one needs quite a bit of rigor.
God certainly could make an infinite void with only a finite area of “interesting” creation, which would give you a “no”. But if His non-void creation was “uniformly” created (the probabilist’s rigorous way of stating the common premise which easily leads to the answer), then “yes” those things will happen (although even here, “will happen” has a technical meaning which is not exactly identical to what you might think).
So again, it depends. But to get a meaningful answer, one needs quite a bit of rigor.
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Jvrlns
Guest
Hi Julian and Manygift1Spirit,
Thanks for you replies.
I understand and believe all you say, but God granting everlasting life and salvation has more to do with his power than his infinity, although both are related. My question was more about the probabilities of an infinite number of beings in God’s creation.
What do you people think is more plausible?
I was reading an article the other day about the size of our universe, how big it might be and one of the most accepted theories says that the visible universe with its trillion galaxies each with billions of stars is compared to the total size of our universe like an atom is to the earth.
Quoting Jodie Foster in the movie “Contact” it seems like an awful waste of space.
Our universe could be a lot smaller than that and still be capable of sustaining life. Why all that space just for us???
Even if we are the only intelligent beings aside from angels, there have been according to some statistics more than one hundred billion people since man has existed. There hasn’t been so many people in the world as today, almost 7 billions, so if we are still around in a few hundred years there will have been more than a trillion people in this planet. Yet the infinite mind of God can be perfectly capable of keeping track and knowing each of those people perfectly and loving them as if each one of them were the only one ever existed.
Thanks for you replies.
I understand and believe all you say, but God granting everlasting life and salvation has more to do with his power than his infinity, although both are related. My question was more about the probabilities of an infinite number of beings in God’s creation.
What do you people think is more plausible?
I was reading an article the other day about the size of our universe, how big it might be and one of the most accepted theories says that the visible universe with its trillion galaxies each with billions of stars is compared to the total size of our universe like an atom is to the earth.
Quoting Jodie Foster in the movie “Contact” it seems like an awful waste of space.
Our universe could be a lot smaller than that and still be capable of sustaining life. Why all that space just for us???
Even if we are the only intelligent beings aside from angels, there have been according to some statistics more than one hundred billion people since man has existed. There hasn’t been so many people in the world as today, almost 7 billions, so if we are still around in a few hundred years there will have been more than a trillion people in this planet. Yet the infinite mind of God can be perfectly capable of keeping track and knowing each of those people perfectly and loving them as if each one of them were the only one ever existed.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
One poster here has made the statement that you have a soul, and that one day it will be re-united with your body. This was part of their argument to support the view that God is infinite.
Please, take any argument from consequences with a very big grain of salt.
The theist really should refrain from additional props to their arguments and just answer the question directly IMHO.
Please, take any argument from consequences with a very big grain of salt.
The theist really should refrain from additional props to their arguments and just answer the question directly IMHO.
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MindOverMatter2
Guest
For one, the infinity of God is not to be confused with the infinity of numbers. An infinite being is one that has no physical limitations. For example, God is not a particular size or shape. God is not definably contained within the limits of space or time, but rather, all of time and space exists through Gods being, and God permeates all beings. God does not change because this implies that Gods nature can be added to or that his continued existence is a potentiality rather than a necessity. Therefore God must be understood as already containing all the actualities that is true of his being; thus God is infinitely or perfectly actual. God is the root of all power in so far as God is the root of all potential changing beings, and thus has all the power that can possibly exist; and God wields that power to a degree that is logically true and consistent with the other attributes of a perfect being, and that is to say that Gods act is proportionate to Gods infinite being. Thus God, in this sense, is understood as infinitely powerful. God is perfectly being, and this is to say that Gods intrinsic nature is existence, rather than that which is potentially existent or participatory - contingent. Thus, in the sense of existence, God is understood as being infinite. God is also all-knowing, because that which is existence has no physical limitations (such as space and time), and is the giver of existence (is that through which a potential thing comes to exist). And since this is the case, God cannot fail to know that which exists, and neither can God fail to be existentially present to all actual realities at all times simultaneously. There is no true reality that can exist outside of Gods knowledge because Gods knowing something is identical with his being. Therefore God has infinite knowledge.If God is infinite what are the consequences of that? Shouldn’t there be an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of intelligent beings in them?
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chaunceygardner
Guest
One can argue over what “infinite” means in regards to God. Here is my take on that.If God is infinite what are the consequences of that? Shouldn’t there be an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of intelligent beings in them?
An infinite God is greater than the universe, or universes if you will. God encompasses everything, and everything is in God. God is not outside of our reality peering in; God is part of it, or more accurately we and it are part of God.
This does not put any condition on the size of the universe or number of universes. There could be just one universe, and as we currently perceive it that is the case. It could be an expanding universe, it could be one of any number of universes (the more we learn about this the greater and more expansive everything becomes, to what limit?) So we could have an infinite universe or an infinite number of universes. Wow! Then yes, there could be an infinite number of worlds with intelligent life (the jury is still out on this world about that).
But if you propose an infinite universe and an infinite God, then aren’t they one and the same? Of course, that won’t fly with those who believe in heaven as a place and God as some sort of being separate from physical creation. And this is a direct contradition to the old view of the earth as the center of everything and man as the pinnacle of God’s creation. We may just be an infinitesimally small part of that creation, and one of an infinite number of beings “created in God’s image”.
Quite a humbling thought.
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MindOverMatter2
Guest
I think that God can create an indefinite number of things, but there is no such thing as an infinite being that is potentially more. Once one starts speaking of infinite numbers in terms of objective events, numbers themselves become meaningless. For example if something is an infinite size, what sense does it make to ask how big it is as definable by an amount? Or better still, what sense does it make to ask if it can be bigger? An infinity by definition transcends all potential or countable numbers, and thus we cannot logically define an infinite as a number in the sense of potentially real things.
I love that film:thumbsup:.
In order to have an intelligible understanding of why a huge universe exists, you would have to accept an evolutionary picture of the universe (a developmental universe), because otherwise, outside of some artistic desire, it will be hard to make sense of why God would create such a large space, given practical considerations. Upon accepting that God chose to create a universe that evolves, you would realize that the size is really an outworking of a process that necessarily had to take place in order for the important physical aspects and conditions suitable for life - including the planet earth - to have evolved naturally. Thus the size is a probabilistic outcome of natural events and has nothing really to do with wasting space, regardless of whether or not God exists. Thus size cannot be used as a reason to doubt God. I think it was John Polkinghorne who said that the universe had to be the size it is in order for life to evolve on our planet, let alone on other planets!!!
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Jvrlns
Guest
Hi MimdOverMatter2,
Thanks for you insight, it’s been very helpful.
You say God is infinitely powerfull and that is why I think his creation could be endless, not that it actually is. Anyway we’ll never know in this life, but the further we can see into the universe the more we’ll understand about God.
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Jvrlns
Guest
God is greater than the universe no matter the size of it, God is greater than its creatures in many ways, not only size and numbers.
I don’t see how the universe being infinite in size or numbers would make it one and the same with God. the universe will still be a creature contingent upon God for its existence. I understand that creation is part of God in the sense that it’s part of his experience.
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hansard
Guest
I posted on a thread here, some time ago, my fall-back belief that God probably exists as an adjunct to the physical universe. In other words, if there is a God, his existence is contiguous and concurrent with that of the universe. The Big Bang was the creation of everything, including God.
Universes need gods, you see. Or maybe they don’t, and ours is a happy accident. The god we have, luckily, is a good and merciful one. There is no reason whatever for discounting the existence of other gods in other universes (which, clearly, we will never know anything about, nor will those gods know anything about one another), or for expostulating on their goodness/badness/singularity/whatever.
Once you get into multiple universe theory, it’s all up for grabs.
Universes need gods, you see. Or maybe they don’t, and ours is a happy accident. The god we have, luckily, is a good and merciful one. There is no reason whatever for discounting the existence of other gods in other universes (which, clearly, we will never know anything about, nor will those gods know anything about one another), or for expostulating on their goodness/badness/singularity/whatever.
Once you get into multiple universe theory, it’s all up for grabs.
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Jvrlns
Guest
I have a problem with John Polkinghorne’s argument. The only thing it means to me is that our universe is big enough to harvest life but not how big a universe must be to do so. I don’t think we have enough knowledge yet to answer that question.
I don’t know what the church’s teaching is on the appearance of life but many people believe that life is a miracle in the sense that God had to infuse life on the first microorganism for it to come alife. So he had to violate the natural laws of the universe to create life. But what if God created a universe where life is capable of appearing naturally?
For example, what if in some years in the future we have sufficient technology to make a bacteria from scratch by putting all the right molecules together and it comes alife? Wouldn’t that mean that under the right conditions life could appear in many places in the universe without God having to violate the universe’s laws? It would still be part of God’s design. But that’s a subject for another thread
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chaunceygardner
Guest
I think we actually agree on this. You say that “creation is part of God in the sense that it’s part of his experience”. I would agree with that, and would add that the universe(s) are contained within God. God is “everything” and the universe(s) may or not be “everything”. I used the qualifier “if” regarding the universe(s) as infinite. Can both be infinite? They could be if one was physical in nature while the other was non-physical spirit. They could co-exist since one takes up physical space and the other takes up another unknown dimension. Like our thoughts. They are not physical, but they exist within a physical body.
Or our soul. If our soul is spiritual like God (which I believe it is) it can co-exist within the physical body but is also independent of it. In a sense our souls come from God and are “part” of God. The relationship of the soul and body are one just like the relationship between God and the universe(s) but on a tiny scale. Which they must be if each of us, and all of us, are part of that infinity we know as God.
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JimG
Guest
No. An infinite universe would be one which is spatially or temporally infinite–extending spatially for an infinite space or in time for an infinite duration both backwards and forward.
But God has no extension in space or time whatsoever, so He is not infinite temporally or spatially. He does not exist in space or time but independently of them. In creating the universe (or even infinite universes) he creates space and time.
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Leela
Guest
I can’t see how there could be any practical consequences to asserting or denying that God is infinite. How would one orient herself differently toward God under either circumstance?If God is infinite what are the consequences of that? Shouldn’t there be an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of intelligent beings in them?
As William James asked about dogmas concerning the metaphysical qualities of God, "how do such qualities as these make any definite connection with our life? And if they severally call for no distinctive adaptations of our conduct, what vital difference can it possibly make to a man’s religion whether they be true or false? "
Best,
Leela
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chaunceygardner
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I agreed with your view point (using different words) in my later post. I was asking the question, but did not give an answer in the earlier post. Thanks for stating the concept so well.
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coolduude
Guest
I hope I’m not hijacking the thread here (if I am please tell me to leave and I’ll start a new thread 
) but I just watche an atheistic video on this topic. Here it is:
youtube.com/watch?v=2KxHD6o259I&feature=youtube_gdata
You don’t even have to watch the video to learn his argument- it’s in the description.
Anyway, the video deals with an infinte God as well. At the end the maker of the video tried to refute the 3rd theist rebuttal but I think he fails, but icant explain it. The universe is creation- how can God exist outside it? (I think I summarized it right) Because he created creation right?
An intresting video. Have a field day with it MindOverMatter2
Again, if I’m derailing the thread I’ll be happy to move for you all
) but I just watche an atheistic video on this topic. Here it is:youtube.com/watch?v=2KxHD6o259I&feature=youtube_gdata
You don’t even have to watch the video to learn his argument- it’s in the description.
Anyway, the video deals with an infinte God as well. At the end the maker of the video tried to refute the 3rd theist rebuttal but I think he fails, but icant explain it. The universe is creation- how can God exist outside it? (I think I summarized it right) Because he created creation right?
An intresting video. Have a field day with it MindOverMatter2
Again, if I’m derailing the thread I’ll be happy to move for you all
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StrawberryJam
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itinerant1
Guest
We say that God is infinite in many ways, love, wisdom, power, and so on, but nothing necessarily follows from that in regard to what He created in regard to universes or intelligent beings. That is, God is complete in himself and has no “need” of creatures. He created them, though, out of love to share in His infinite happiness. This choice of creation does not necessitate that he create an infinite number of things. In fact, an actually existing infinite number of created things is a logical and ontological impossibility.If God is infinite what are the consequences of that? Shouldn’t there be an infinite number of universes with an infinite number of intelligent beings in them?
Furthermore, the uni-verse is the single totality of consistently interacting things. The idea of multiple universes is a contradiction in terms.
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itinerant1
Guest
Humans need God because that is how God created them – we find the ultimate fulfillment of our being in He who has created us. Ever think of that possibility?
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