God is the end of the world

[J1Priest]

I posted this in ChurchUSA.com Forums, which is a very Protestant (and anti-Catholic) Forum. I wanted to see what these Bible-only Protestants would say to the proposition that God is the end (telos) of the world.
I only got one reply that had nothing to do with the topic, to which I replied “it seems there are no philosophers here”.

Let’s see how this question takes on at CAF. Don’t disapoint me!

God bless

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Here it is:​

The Psalmist said, “As a hart longs for flowing streams, so longs my soul for thee, O God.” (Ps 42:1)
and again, “My soul longs, yea, faints for the courts of the LORD; my heart and flesh sing for joy to the living God.” (Ps. 84:2)
St. Augustine said, “our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee”.

God is our first begining and our last end.
He is the reason we live.
He created us for Himself, so that He could love us and we love Him back.

He is the end of the world.
(Speaking about telos, purpose)

Our purpose in life is to achieve happiness, and this true happiness, this eternal bliss, is nothing but Heaven, of which the Psalmist says,
“One thing have I asked of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple.” (Ps. 27:4)
For this is what Heaven is, beholding the beauty of God (cf. Ps 27:4), seeing God as He is (cf. 1 John 3:2).

 

[fhansen]

I don’t know why they would argue the point, even though they may not have a beatific vision concept -which is vague even for us. But I believe that God, Himself, would still be the final destiny according to their theology.

 

[geekborj]

I don’t know if i will reply to this question because of the challenge or because there was a question at all. So, what is the question?

If you are arguing that “God is the end of the world,” then you have to explain why. If this is a figurative way of saying that “God is the purpose of life,” being the “end” of our journey then it is true. God is the “end” of this world because He is the beginning and the end: He is Alpha and Omega (Rev. 1:8).

What do you want to hear from both parties by the way?

 

[J1Priest]

yeah, i guess it is a true statement so no need for discussion.
I was just being too hard and thinking too low on the Protestants at www.churchusa.com
Though they still amaze me sometimes… lol… well, did, since I got banned.

Pax Christi!
Juan J.

 

[Green_Tea]

J1Priest,

I like the idea. However, as currently stated it does not really say anything, as a few other posters have pointed out. I am curious about how you would develop the notion. For example, telos implies an “end” that is not external to that which possesses the telos, but rather arises from within it as the proper expression and fulfillment of that which it is. Is God the telos of the world in this sense? Or is God external to the world? What would that mean, in either case? In what way, exactly, is it the case that God is the “end”? I like the scripture references which you cite; how could you develop those in relation to your thought?

These are just a few directions you could take this notion, but these appear necessary questions if you want to flesh out the idea and give it some weight and determination.

 

[J1Priest]

Ah, now we’re getting deeper into philosophy… unknown and dark realm… lol jk… well, sometimes.

Hum, the saying was something I heard as a joke in a dinner conversation on campus, in which God is our end, the world being us.
That our happiness lies in Him, as well as we come from and go back to Him.

Pax Christ, happy Easter!
Juan J.

 

[fhansen]

I don’t pretend to be a philosopher but it sounds like you’re not asking about how the term telos might be applied to God so much as how, or in what way, God is our end. I think this issue would tend to be a matter of theology rather than philosophy since we’re talking about something which is non-demonstrable and based on revelation. The writers of the verses you cited had, in my opinion, a strong sense or even a direct experience of knowing or “being with” God in one way or another. In Catholic theology this is our final end and the only thing which can ultimately satisfy our souls and quench the thirst for that elusive missing SOMETHING which alone possesses the ability to fill the emptiness inside of us. God is at once the donor of the gift and the gift itself. We were made for God and even made “like God” in a way and yet this God is so different and so much higher than us that only a being such as He could know, and say without egoism being the motive, that our proper end is Him-that we are totally lost without Him-and that we will be totally, eternally delighted by Him. And this, I think, is the main content of and reason for the revelation of our faith. Adam rejected what God knows we can’t live without. God is the Tree of Life. The life we live now is devoid of God because it consists of, essentially, banishment from eating of that Tree. But Jesus won for us the right to eat of that Tree again and live-to make our way back to the very source of and purpose for our existence-God Himself. To know God is to exalt Him. And to know and exalt Him is ecstasy.